Turnabout: Is Obama Denialist Orly Taitz Really a Lawyer? Will She Be For Long?

I don’t like to talk about the “Birthers.” They don’t deserve serious treatment, except the occasional concise or snarky explanation of why they’re wrong, both of which are done better elsewhere, at a friend’s site. Besides, debating them extensively just makes me feel like I’m lowering myself to their level. So please forgive this momentary diversion, a last glance at one particularly reprehensible villain.

“Dr.” Orly Taitz, a woman holding herself out as a lawyer, has managed to leverage the far-right’s distaste for President Obama into a number of conspiracy theories, a few scurrilous lawsuits, and fifteen minutes of fame, billing herself as the defender of obscure constitutional phraseology and – apparently – the republic itself. But “Dr.” Taitz may be the only “ineligible” player in her little farce.

Although Taitz is a member of the California Bar, she’s not listed as a member of the American Bar Association (check for yourself). Nor is her “law school” (William Howard Taft University) accredited by the ABA. Because Taft is a distance-learning school only, Taitz’s degree entitles her, at most, to practice in California, as her school candidly admits.

Rules of attorney discipline forbid the practice of law without a license – i.e., without sitting for and passing the bar exam, after graduating from an ABA-accredited school. Her correspondence degree is a limited exception, only useful in California. So, any action in which she appeared as counsel of record outside the state would constitute practicing law without a license, in violation of California disciplinary rules. Has “Dr.” Taitz violated this rule? Does her appearance before the Supreme Court, in filing documents for the frivolous, since-dismissed case Lightfoot v. Bowen, therefore subject her to discipline?

Maybe. Under the rules of the Supreme Court, an attorney must be admitted to the Supreme Court Bar to make an appearance before the court (i.e., make arguments, or file a motion).* Her limited admission in California appears to entitle her to admission to the Supreme Court Bar, provided she checked all the boxes and paid her $200 fee,* or sought temporary (pro hac vice) admission.* The question is whether “Dr.” Taitz managed to get herself admitted – which Taitz has never suggested. (UPDATE: She did, and she posted it. However, using the burden of proof Taitz expects of Obama, I still don’t believe it.)

Even if Taitz legitimately filed her grade-school level motions before the Supreme Court, she may have violated a series of other disciplinary rules in the course of her conduct. The California Rules of Professional Conduct provide,

A member shall not seek, accept, or continue employment if the member knows or should know that the objective of such employment is:

(A) To bring an action, conduct a defense, assert a position in litigation, or take an appeal, without probable cause and for the purpose of harassing or maliciously injuring any person; or

(B) To present a claim or defense in litigation that is not warranted under existing law, unless it can be supported by a good faith argument for an extension, modification, or reversal of such existing law.*

The exception for “good faith argument[s] for an extension, modification, or reversal of such existing law” is large as a matter of policy, and allows attorneys to creatively address real problems in the current state of the law . But at least one judge thinks that the Obama citizenship cases are more than creative – in his words, they’re the “frivolous” actions of “agents provacateurs,” constituting harassment, and potentially subjecting at least one Berg-led attorney to discipline. There’s no reason Taitz shouldn’t be similarly disciplined upon her next filing, under California’s mirror rule.

Further, Taitz’s “consent form,” posted on her site to solicit & induce ill-advised members of our military into suing the President, may constitute an unethical attorney solicitation. Under the California rules, attorney “communications” may not contain dramatization, or “confuse, deceive, or mislead the public.”* Tricking enlisted men & women into frivolously suing the commander in chief at least flirts with that line. Smart lawyers don’t cut the disciplinary rules this close.

Now, I’m not a lawyer. Yet. So the above is amateur opinion, not professional theory. I know my limits. Taitz doesn’t. That’s just one of a few things that separates us.


    1. Sup. Ct. Rule 9.1.
    2. Sup. Ct. Rule 6.
    3. Sup. Ct. Rule 5.1.
    4. California RPC 3-200.
    5. California RPC 1-400.


    1. Gotchaye · ·



    2. sunkawakan · ·

      Well thought out. Keep up the good work.

    3. MarshallDog · ·

      Yeah, I was trying to read that headline in LOLspeak too. If “Dr.” Taitz were someone I took seriously, I’d feel bad for how the emergence of LOLspeak probably ruined her life. I can just picture it… “What do you do?” “I’m a lawyer.” “ORLY?” Eh, now that I typed it it’s kinda lame.

    4. @Gotchaye & Marshall – if you didn’t do it, I would. And I’m pretty sure her old blog made that joke too… It might be a law that you have to make it…

    5. Cymraeg · ·

      Great article. Speaking as a retired lawyer with 40 years of practice, I totally agree with the conclusions therein. There is another interesting issue: “barratry”. This is the constant incitement of litigation. This is grounds for disbarment.

      I am becoming frustrated though. I know the courts will eventuallly lash out and impose serious penalties including possible imprisonment. I hope it is sooner rather than later. What I am seeing is a mob mentality developing through blogs. They are feeding off each other and becoming more and more histerical. They are running on raw emotion.

    6. Good man; thanks for the comments! Since I’m just a 3L, it’s great to hear a real lawyer’s commentary.

    7. When did you change your name to “ACG”?

    8. Good catch :). With this post, actually – Taitz has a nasty reputation for going after people she doesn’t like… so I thought it best to go for a modicum of anonymity.

    9. you say that you don’t want to “lower yourself” and you refer to things being done at a “grade-school level” and yet you are apparently, incapable of comprehending a very simple fact: that if Barack Obama is , indeed, the biological son of B.O. Sr. , he is not a natural born citizen PERIOD. A class full of 7th & 8th graders over 30 years ago had little difficulty identifying an individual with B.Obama II’s pedigree as falling short of the Constitution’s Article II Sec 1 Clause 5 req for POTUS

      1. Tim;

        Since when do men give birth to children? You said that, since BO II’s father was of Kenyan descent, that automatically makes him a Kenyan? HuH?

        1. Reply to ‘Huh’ Are you nuts? BO Sr. was NOT an immigrant to the U.S., merely a visitor , on a student/gov’t visa. He was a British subject/Kenyan cit and BO Jr. inherited his father’s status at birth , as governed by the U.K This is not supposition. The man , himself, BO Jr has freely admitted as much via his “Fight the Smears” website.

    10. Tim, I was wondering how long it would take people like you to find this. Anyways, we can have this debate, but consider this: in the discussion of what “natural born citizen” means, I have the federal judiciary including the Supreme Court, all fifty state secretaries of state, and the entire legal academy. You have a dentist with a correspondence-school legal degree. I hate to argue from authority, but your type doesn’t seem to understand law, so what am I to do?

      Keep this in mind – sometimes, losing in the face of incredible odds isn’t noble. It’s just losing.

      1. spinpolitico · ·

        Meritorious or not, Tim almost made a point here. Ironically, Congress passed a resolution (after investigation and deliberation) into the eligibility of John McCain to hold office. The final resolution determined that if BOTH parents were American Citizens, then the offspring can be deemed a natural born citizen.

        No such congressional hearing took place in regards to Obama. This neither legitimizes him or discounts him, however, it does continue to keep the question alive. Personally, I never gave much credence to the ‘birth cert’ hyperbole…UNTIL he made such enormous efforts to circumvent all the lawsuits and all the inquiries into his past. Just seems to me that someone that has nothing to hide, does not need to go thru so much effort to keep things hidden.

        As of June 23, WND has reported that among the documentation not yet available for Obama includes his kindergarten records, his Punahou school records, his Occidental College records, his Columbia University records, his Columbia thesis, his Harvard Law School records, his Harvard Law Review articles, his scholarly articles from the University of Chicago, his passport, his medical records, his files from his years as an Illinois state senator, his Illinois State Bar Association records, any baptism records, and his adoption records.

        Kinda makes one go …. “hmmmm”, irrespective of Orly, Berg, Keyes, or whomever.

        1. Legal Eagle · ·

          What on earth would Obama’s grad school records, etc. have to do with whether or not he is a citizen? You are just trying to harass. If there were any question as to Obama’s citizenship, don’t you think the GOP would have brought it up during the campaign?

          1. Why would they(GOP) “bring it up” when their own candidate had his own very serious eligibility issues?
            Regarding disclosure of BO’s records almost complete disclosure is necessary including school records to determine the nature of foreign involvement. Affirmation of foreign citizenship after the age of majority , for example, in the case of his Indonesian citizenship

            1. No, all these records are most certainly not required. You’re throwing things against the wall and seeing what sticks. This is not reasonable inquiry.

              A birth certificate has been supplied, with raised seal from the State of Hawaii. The Dept. of Health of State of Hawaii has authenticated it. Unless you’re prepared to prove a criminal conspiracy potentially going back decades between Obama and the Hawaii Dept of health, it’s probably time to drop this foolishness.

              1. a birth certificate has NOT been ‘supplied’ if you have such an item I’d like to see it
                certification of live birth is NOT the same
                you are sadly, profoundly ignorant
                besides, unless the long-form. “vault-version” shows a person other than BO Sr to be the bio Pop for ex an American cit father then it is nothing more than deflection from the already admitted foreign attachment in this putative POTUS BO Jr’s British citizenship

                1. idioteraser · ·

                  One has been supplied, several agencies traveled to it, photographed it, touched it and contacted Hawaiian Department of Health officals who confirmed it looked like the certificate currently supplied to every Hawaiian born in the state now and to people who request their birth certificate for the last decade or so when Hawaii as well as several other states went to electronic data keeping and destroyed the paper records.

                  Certification of Life Birth is a birth certificate as defined by the law and the Department of Health, the Department of the Treasury and numerous other state, local, federal, international gov’t agencies and departments.

                  You have certificates of of fetal death. Those are birth certificates as well. But since people don’t request them people have no idea they actually exist but they do.

                  Barack Obama Jr is not a british citizen as defined by UK citizenship law since he was born after his father’s country gained indepedance and even if before according to UK citizenship laws he still wouldn’t be eligible for UK citizenship.

                  Also we have past vice presidents and presidents who had fathers and mothers who were citizens from different countries. It didn’t prevent them from serving their terms.

                  1. you are wrong in every respect i haven’t the time to go over it all now do your homework you are woefully ignorant
                    your very last statement says it all
                    we have not had any past President(excepting Chester Arthur who pulled off this scam back in the 1880’s) whose parents were “citizens from other countries” There have been a couple of Presidents who had IMMIGRANT parents. Those parents became full-fledged citizens of the U.S. pledging allegiance to this country and renouncing all others before they went on to have their child who would grow up to become Pres.
                    BO Sr WAS NOT AN IMMIGRANT TO THE U.S. He was a visitor on a gov’t student visa , merely a sojourner not even permanently domiciled here. If he were alive today he could very well be sitting at the helm of a foreign sovereignty
                    The birth cert is a distraction from the real issue, although I would still like to see the long-form , hospital generated version doc’s sig witness(s) sig all other rel vital data

                  2. This is verbatim what you wrote:”Barack Obama Jr is not a british citizen as defined by UK citizenship law since he was born after his father’s country gained indepedance and even if before according to UK citizenship laws he still wouldn’t be eligible for UK citizenship.”
                    My reply: This is absolute falsehood You really need to check the facts NOT “factcheck.org”
                    btw– they have already admitted publishing untruths regarding B.O. Jr’s Kenyan citizenship

                    1. idioteraser · ·

                      Factcheck.org has never done so. They got the date wrong as their edit explains.

                      Corrected (Sep. 3, 2009): Our original article incorrectly stated that then-Sen. Obama lost his Kenyan citizenship on Aug. 4, 1982. The correct date is Aug. 4, 1984. The Kenyan Constitution required Obama to choose whether to keep either his U.S. or Kenyan citizenship upon his 21st birthday, which was in 1982. But we initially missed that the Constitution provided him a two-year window for making that choice. So Obama did not lose his Kenyan citizenship until his 23rd birthday in 1984. We have updated the item to reflect this.

        2. Another totally unrelated argument. McCain was born in Panama not the US. The President was born in the US (yes Hawaii was and is part of the US for you that don’t know)to a US citizen.I was born in the US to a Canadian father and a US mother. I am and have always been a US citizen. I guess the difference is I am not black and my father was not from some scary place in Africa. The more you rant, the stupider you look.

          1. Yes, you may be an American citizen just as well as B.O. Jr may be but the requirement for President is natural born citizen. The soil & THE BLOOD . NO FOREIGN ATTACHMENT IN THE EXECUTIVE
            NATURAL LAW HEREDITARY RIGHT NOT ONLY TERRITORIAL MOTHER’S U.S. CIT STATUS DOES NOT VOID BO JR’s British citizenship which he has openly admitted serves as the steersman

            1. idioteraser · ·

              Dead wrong he has never admitted it and actual US law doesn’t prevent dual citizens even if they still have the status from serving as President.

              Several supreme court cases have testifed as such.

          2. You’re the one playing the race card and talking about “scary places” What has any of that have to do with “natural born citizen”?! — a path to citizenship that can only be taken through 2 citizen parents or 1 , if the other is unknown. Natural born citizenship is inherited NOT acquired. Dual citizenship may be “all the rage” but it simply won’t do for Pres. & Commander-in-Chief
            Why do you wish to deny BO Jr his full citizenship rights?

    11. again it’s amateur magician time
      all the mis -direction & deflection in the world will not obscure the facts
      what do i have on ‘my side’–only the truth and history
      you can run from it but eventually it will catch up with US. Unless some officials at the highest levels are withholding information regarding BOII’s paternity that would contradict the known “facts” then I must accept the family narrative as it has been related . That being the case, there isn’t anything to debate the Founding Fathers didn’t stumble upon the term “natural-born” It identifies a very specific class of citizenship for holders of the highest office in the land Chet Arthur’s ruse does not set precedent for BO
      Read the Framers’ correspondence/letters ,notes and all the notes for the relevant case history(14th Amend-Kim Wok Ark etc) if you are having trouble fathoming original intent

      1. Corey Carroll · ·

        Why are you birthers incapable of writing a complete sentence with attached punctuation?

        Don’t you know it makes you look like a breathless idiot?

        1. b sheppard · ·

          “birthers”? so that’s your attempt at ridicule? this all smells: attack the messenger, no meat on the actual accusations, etc.

          all this and you Obamacrats cannot aswer the very simple question: Where’s the damn Birth Certificate?!?

          1. Hawkeye-X · ·

            If you want the certificate number, here it is in factcheck somewhere.

            1. so…now, something called “factcheck” is the ultimate authority in matters of such gravity. ? You’ve just impugned your own integrity with this foolish reference

              1. No level of proof will ever satisfy delusional individuals such as yourself. Provide an image of the birth certificate, and you say it’s a fake because there is no seal. Provide an image of the seal, and you say it’s still a fake. Provide the birth certificate to a presumeably disinterested third party for comparison and review, and suddenly they’re conspirators.

                The more you write, the more unreasonable your scenario becomes.

                1. What are you talking about ; “no level of proof” The man himself has already furnished sufficient proof and I am willing to take him at his word. He (BO Jr) has publicly claimed ,NON-IMMIGRANT, FOREIGNER TO THE U.S., B.Obama Sr as his biological father. What more “proof” do you need? from Aristotle to Vattel to the Founders/Framers CITIZEN PARENTS BOTH!!!! NO FOREIGN ATTACHMENT IN THE EXECUTIVE OFFICE HOLDER. PERIOD!

                  1. If you want to understand what “the Founders” meant, you need to read Blackstone’s Commentaries. “Aristotle to Vattel” are not common law tradition.


                    1. You are an obsurantist
                      read your beloved “Blackstone” again, this time, carefully.
                      Come on , dude Be honest with yourself You damned well
                      there isn’t one true Founder that would approve having the biological off-spring of a “pledged” foreigner, non-immigrant to the U.S. as POTUS/Commander-in-Chief

                    2. Blackstone, Book 1, ch. 10:

                      “The first and most obvious division of the people is into aliens and natural-born subjects. Natural-born subjects are such as are born within the dominions of the crown of England…”

                      And later:

                      “The children of aliens, born here in England, are, generally speaking, natural-born subjects and entitled to all the privileges of such.”

                      1. ‘subject’ is NOT a ‘citizen’
                        Remember that little skirmish called “The American Revolution”?

                      2. Tim! Long time, no see.

                        You are of course correct (and that’s one thing I thought I’d never write). Subjects and citizens are not precisely the same thing. However, lawyers (and others) have this little thing called an ‘argument by analogy’, in which they deduce a rule from one existing case to a new, similar one.

                        If I thought you’d A) read and B) understand them, I could refer you to some sources on the influence of Blackstone on the framing of the Constitution, but frankly, I can’t be arsed.

          2. I do have ample documentary proof – here and elsewhere online – of piss-poor “birther” orthography and/or ham-handed typing (are birthers actually a burgeoning race of typing monkeys, such as G.B. Shaw imagined writing “Hamlet”?). And how about the grammar–when fiery thoughts of the imminent Obamapocalypse consume these people, their studies in English for the G.E.D. are forgotten…

    12. to “ACG”
      listen to yourself—-“people like you” and “your type” what are you talking about? people like me and my type
      you also talk about “losing”
      we all LOSE if in this Constitutional republic of ours the rule of law is not upheld
      we are not living in a pure democracy and you would take the time to read the actual word of the Founders and those of their ilk that followed you would appreciate that the “mob rule ” mentality is what they fought so hard to prevent from taking hold
      “people like (me)” and “(my)type” , indeed.

      1. Hawkeye-X · ·

        Say it loud, say it proud.

        YOU ARE A RACIST!!!




        1. Never mind them – they’re hopeless.

          The day Scalia & Co. pushed through the Bush v. Gore decision, these same Constitutionally-minded rednecks hooted in celebration. But now, months after the results of a legitimate election are in, they’re up in arms about a “crisis”!

          1. legitimate election? man, you really are sick.

        2. really? last time I checked Alan Keyes was black and unlike BO, truly can claim “Selma”

        3. a “black man for president” or woman for that matter, is fine. just have them be natural born citizens like all other successful candidates for the office have been(excepting the scammer Chester Arthur) Since you injected race , here, why the affirmative action program for BO? why the free pass? Why not judge him according to the same standard you would any other candidate for POTUS ? The Framers/Founders intent with
          ARTICLE II SEC1 CL 5 was to close off all avenues to foreign influence at the highest of levels. The executive branch and Command in Chief of U.S. Armed forces is off limits to the children of foreigners ..of any stripe be they the off-spring of Kim Jung Il or Mother Teresa. BO Sr died prematurely but this does not give his son a free pass. Had he lived SR. could very well be sitting at the helm of a foreign sovereignty, today . Think that wouldn’t present a conflict for Jr currently occupying the WhiteHouse ? Come on folks, let’s get real

          1. Wait until the next President is the child of Mexican immigrants. I guess you will really go bonkers then. Shouldn’t you be meantioning those 39 Obama social security numbers claimed by your leader. At least the Obama is an alien group are funny.


              SEE ABOVE

    13. Tim, you need to seek help. That is crazy talk, really. Please run, don’t walk, to the nearest hospital and admit yourself.

      You lost and you’ve become undone. Maybe in the future you will be able to look back at this period of your life and realize how far off the deep end you’ve gone. But right now is the time for you to get help.

      Please, before you end up doing something really drastic.


    14. Tim –

      Why is it that no-one ever finds a coherent birther? I’ve honestly never seen one of your ilk submit a comment on this site, or any site, that wasn’t riddled with typos or grammar errors. The same goes for your organizers – Taitz, Donofrio, etc., they’re no better.

      Now. The framer’s original letters naturally wouldn’t speak to the issue of double citizenship, because double citizenship didn’t exist in 1789! As for the rest of your arguments, please read this and get back to me.

      1. There are none.

    15. tinkerthinker · ·

      Cymraeg ,, no lawyer would say what you just did.
      The only people who are in denial are you guys..

    16. tinkerthinker · ·

      BTW,, Roberts didn’t blow her off! He agreed to read her case and directed his secret service guy to take the papers. Why do you liberals always have to lie?

    17. tinkerthinker · ·

      You are the crazy, not Dr. Taitz…

    18. Dude: he blew her off. He said what he had to to shut her up. Just you wait and see what comes of it. I’ll be proved right, when nothing happens after a few weeks

    19. ACG wrote:
      “…Now. The framer’s original letters naturally wouldn’t speak to the issue of double citizenship, because double citizenship didn’t exist in 1789!..”

      exactly why BO II status is not that of a natural born U.S. citizen. He was, by his own admission, a born British subject His ‘status governed by ‘ the Crown.

    20. Excuse me, but when, in what speech or press release or book, did Mr. Obama admit he is a born British subject? Title, page or line number please.

    21. Cymraeg · ·

      To tinkerbell:


    22. Lola Getz · ·

      @tinkerthinker, obviously you haven’t heard the recording of Orly’s conversation with Chief Justice Roberts, so here’s an mp3 for you: http://media.spokesman.com/audio_clips/2009/03/robertstaitz.mp3. He blew her off all right. He certainly didn’t say all the crap she claims he did on her blog.

      Orly’s so clueless and rude that she completely disregarded the request that questions come only from University of Idaho people. She just steamrolled right over them.

      BTW, Supreme Court Justices don’t have Secret Service protection. I looked that up for you too, because you birthers don’t seem to be able to venture outside of your own little circle jerk to find real information: http://media.spokesman.com/audio_clips/2009/03/robertstaitz.mp3

    23. Lola Getz · ·

      Oops, provided the wrong link about the Secret Service. Here’s the correct one: http://www.ustreas.gov/usss/faq.shtml#faq2

    24. Cymraeg · ·

      Following is a citation from the decision of the Supreme Court is the case of US v Wong Kim Ark 169 US 649 (1898). You decide what it says about “Natural-born”.

      “The interpretation of the constitution of the United States is necessarily influenced by the fact that its provisions are framed in the language of the English common law, and are to be read in the light of its history.” 124 U.S. 478
      “All persons born in the allegiance of the king are natural- born subjects, and all persons born in the allegiance of the United States are natural-born citizens. Birth and allegiance go together. Such is the rule of the common law, and it is the common law of this country, as well as of England.”
      “The (14th) amendment, in clear words and in manifest intent, includes the children born within the territory of the United States of all other persons, of whatever race or color, domiciled within the United States. Every citizen or subject of another country, while domiciled here, is within the allegiance and the protection, and consequently subject to the jurisdiction, of the United States. His allegiance to the United States is direct and immediate, and, although but local and temporary, continuing only so long as he remains within our territory, is yet, in the words of Lord Coke in Calvin’s Case, 7 Coke, 6a, ‘strong enough to make a natural subject, for, if he hath issue here, that issue is a natural-born subject-”

      1. OK. Let us see the proof that he was born in the USA!

        now the real WONG KIM ARK
        U.S. v Wong Kim Ark:

        ‘ The foregoing considerations and authorities irresistably lead us to these conclusions—–
        Every citizen or subject of another country, while domiciled here…if he hath issue here…his child is as much a citizen as the natural-born child of a citizen..’
        The court is comparing the NATIVE -born child of an ALIEN to the “NATURAL BORN” child of a citizen.
        Clearly delineating, drawing a distinction between the two in recognizing their individuality. Once again for the Obots and the impaired*: “..is as much a citizen AS ..”

        A NOTE: Justice Gray was appointed to the High Court by Usurper, Chester Arthur

        *isn’t this a reduntancy?

    25. Oneiroi · ·

      You do know the case was “obiter dicta” right Cymraeg?

    26. Oneiroi:

      I would suggest you look in Black’s Law Dictionary for obiter dicta before you make further comment.

    27. Said in passing, right? I haven’t read all of Wong in a while…. but that quote is pretty damning of the Birther cause :)

    28. Oh, and don’t worry, Oneiroi’s one of the good guys.

    29. Philip H wrote:
      “Excuse me, but when, in what speech or press release or book, did Mr. Obama admit he is a born British subject? Title, page or line number please.”
      Release from the BO Camp via”Fight the Smears” :
      “When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4, 1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.

      Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982.”

      The British Nationality Act of 1948 (Part II, Section 5): Subject to the provisions of this section, a person born after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if his father is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies at the time of the birth.

      1. Hawkeye-X · ·

        Oh Tim, do you know EXACTLY what that makes him?

        A British-American citizen!

        That’s right, clutch your heart!

        1. exactly! thus, ineligible for Pres /Commander-in-Chief
          read what all of the Framers/Founders had to say about dual-citizenship

          1. tommystoic · ·

            Remind me again why we are applying British law to American jurisprudence? American courts would not. British law would not apply anywhere but in Britain. It’s moot in this discussion.

              ARTICLE II SEC 1 CLAUSE 5

    30. To all the 14th Amend spouters:
      It may be time to cue the legendary John Bingham Representative of Ohio & “Father of the Fourteenth Amendment”—quote:

      “[I] find no fault with the introductory clause [S 61 Bill], which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen…[6]”

    31. Cymraeg · ·

      To Tim:
      A comment by a single member of the House of Representatives as to his understanding of the meaning of “Natural-born Citizen” is not stare decisis and is not in any way binding on the Supreme Court. The Court is the body that interprets the Constitution, not whomever.

      Analyzing the stawtement logically you seem to be drawing the following conclusion

      If A then B
      If not A then not B. (This is a false logical conclusion.)

      Bingham’s statement ” that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen…” does not logically lead to the conclusion that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is not a natural born citizen.

    32. Furthermore, I have my doubts as to the veracity of that quote. It comes from the Wikipedia article on John Bingham, but the supporting source doesn’t contain the quote.

      Furthermore, the quote was added recently to the WP article, by a guy who is most certainly a Birther, and therefore biased, and who pushes the disproven birther interp. of Wong Kim Ark.

      Sorry buddy. Show me legislative history that has that quote – NOT a Wikipedia article that you or your friends edited to say that.

    33. Cymraeg, you’re not going to believe this: Bingham DID say something about who is a “natural born citizen.” However, the quote, and the meaning of it, is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what Tim’s saying!

      As John Bingham explained, “I find no fault with the introductory clause [of the Act], which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States [is] … a natural born citizen.” Id. at 1291

      Rebecca E. Zietlow, “Congressional Enforcement of the Rights of Citizenship,” 56 Drake L. Rev. 1015, 1027 n.59 (2008).

      I can’t find the source she cites on Lexis, but there you have it: another purposeful, 180 degree Birther lie.

    34. To ACG:

      Thanks. This does not suprise me. The birthers are constantl;y and intentionally misquoting case law, statutes, and whatever else is detrimental to them.

    35. I recited Bingham’s words ;quoting directly the written text from the Library of Congress’ copy of the “Congressional Globe” which provided this account of the 39th Congress’ 1st session dated 03/09/1866 It appears precisely as I have stated in my initial response, above.(not “ACG’s” abridged version)
      You know,folks, all of this “gotcha” & “one-upsmanship” is really silly. I made a few citations and provided a quote or two because I thought it might be helpful to some but I have never had to resort to such measures. As a 12 yr old, years ago, I needed nothing more than to read the Constitutional Clause itself ( Art II Sec 1 ) in order to very quickly conclude that a Natural Born Citizen of the U.S. is one born of citizen parents(naturalized or natural born)and on the soil. jus sanguinis , jus soli. the tip off, logically speaking; ‘or a citizen at the time of the adoption of the Constitution’ There was no disagreement over the “definition” of “natural born citizen” among my fellow students most debate centered around whether or not it was fair or still relevant. All agreed that if one did not like it then one should pursue the proposal and passage of a Constitutional Amendment The only legal “remedy” available. Seeking to obscure the meaning of the eligibility req and therefore circumvent the law is not fix. and as i have hinting earlier; does us all a great disservice

    36. Tim, your “tip-off” is nothing of the sort. Until the adoption of the Constitution, there were zero natural born citizens solely because nobody had been born in the United States yet – it didn’t exist yet. Hence, absent the “or a citizen at the time of the adoption” language, there would have been no person eligible – due to the age restriction – for the first 35 years after the first birth following ratification. It’s the same as the Article I language about how the first Senate will get divided into three classes, one third of which will have a two-year term, one third to have a four-year term, and one third to have the regular six-year term: relevant at the start and a dead letter since. Nothing in there reasonably supports the application of jus sanguinis to the United States or to a distinction between “natural born” and “born” citizens.

      Moreover, what the hell does a British/Kenyan law matter when we’re talking about someone born in Hawaii? British law does not now, did not in 1961, and in fact has never had effect in Hawai’i, as the Kingdom, Republic, and State of Hawai’i have always been outside British and Kenyan jurisdiction. British law can try to claim someone as a British subject through jus sanguinis wherever they were born. For those born outside British territorial jurisdiction, such law is every bit as binding and relevant as British driving regulations, British gun control law, or the British law claiming ownership of all the world’s cheese, especially all the cheese made in Wisconsin by third-generation Swedish immigrant farmers using cows bought from Mexico: utterly non-binding and utterly irrelevant. Outside British territory (say, in Hawai’i or any other part of the United States), British law – including British citizenship law – might as well not even exist.

    37. An interesting note. Recently the Mexican Congress passed legislation making all descendants of Mexican emigrants to the US citizens of Mexico no matter how far removed. Using birther logic, no descendant of a Mexican immigrant would be eligible to be President. Saying that foreign governments have control over whom can be President of the US is idiotic.

    38. Of course the birfers have no cogent argument for the presidency of Chester Arthur, whose Irish-born father was not naturalized until he was a teenager:

      Naturalization Certificate of William Arthur, 1843

      It is especially interesting to note that while Arthur’s eligibility to serve as VP (and thus President) was challenged on the basis of an untrue accusation that he was born in Ireland, no one chose to challenge his eligibility on the fact of his father’s non-citizen status at the time of his birth.

      1. The American public was in the dark regarding Chester Arthur’s father’s status. Read the publications of the day and this fact will become abundantly clear to even the most hardened Obscurantist . Obot , if you like

    39. Lola Gerta @22:

      Right. USSC Justices receive protection when they travel from the Supreme Court Police or federal marshals, unless they decline it.


      Undoubtedly the SCP officer or federal marshal accompanying Roberts identified himself as such to Orly. Typically, she could care less about accuracy…any description will do.

    40. Tim,

      Here is the deal. In the Lawyers eyes if the ‘The Law’ was inturpreted (for example) to say it is okay to have sex with little children then that is they way it is….despite what morals and what us common folk think of it. Because it is ‘The Law’.

      And there are a few Lawyers out there that would and do lobby for MANBLA to create such laws that would allow legal sex with kids.

      Lawyers are in their own little world called ‘The Law’. Lawyers and The Law are similar to playing that video game SIM City…..IMO.

      Lawyers like to work within ‘The Law’ which is in essence a game (process and manipulation) of cat and mouse. The winner of this game is the one who can make the case based on interuptation of case law, tort law and legalese.

      Lawyers and ‘The Law are like women, You can’t live with them and You can’t live without them. They are a nesscessary evil so to speak.

      As far as Obama and his Birth Certificate goes it is nore than likely that Obama citizen or not worked within the confines of ‘The Law’ as it presently stands.

      Do I agree with it NO! Do I think organizations like FactCheck.org should be the ones verifying who qualifies and who doesn’t? Absolutely not.

      The ones to blame for this oversight/debacle aren’t Lawyers or The Law, rather the ones to blame are your state and local officals that failed to have have legislation requiring submition and verification of such data by security organizations such as the FBI and NSA.

      If the system completely fails Tar, Feathers and the receiving end of a Boom Stick maybe in order for those who pervert ‘The Law’.

      But our friends the Lawyers do their best to keep that from reaching that point.

      Lastly Tim, I might suggest you read about Pol Pot, Chairman Mao, Nikoli Lenin and their revolutionary purges……you’ll find the preceived evil Lawyers, Politicians and Bankers were high on the hit list. If and when you decide to investigate those less than stellar Revolutionaries you may find some correlation with the mis-guided actions of Prophet Obama and his band of Merry Zeolots.

      1. Corey Carroll · ·

        Learn to spell. You don’t help our case.

        1. Corey Carroll · ·

          Oops. I think I confused you for a non-birther. The reference to “Prophet Obama” gave it away. How stupid of me.


          You misspelled interpretation as interuptation? I give you an F.

      2. catsy83 · ·

        You are right. Lawyer’s do work within “The Law,” which consists of the codification and interpretation of cognizable, accepted societal norms. It has nothing to do whether lawyers themselves are “moral” – the definition of which is very much up to debate anyway – but whether they are upholding the recognized mores of society as a whole.

        Of course, all societies go through changes – moral and political – which is why you have changes in “The Law,” and lawyers tend to be on the forefront by arguing for such changes to be officially codified and interpreted by our courts. Then, they go and uphold those changes until society changes again.

        In case this is too theoretical for you, let me just say two words that will exemplify what I said: Thurgood Marshall.

        Oh, and one final thing:
        “Lawyers and ‘The Law are like women, You can’t live with them and You can’t live without them. They are a nesscessary evil so to speak.”

        Seriously???? Can you be more sexist?

    41. The confusion over the Bingham quote is that he made it the debate of the Civil Rights Act of 1866, not in the debate over the 14th Amendment. Some accounts that use the quote conflate the two (I think intentionally).

      The argument being raised against Obama’s natural born citizenship derives from the general argument against citizenship for the children of some or another class of immigrants, in the line of the P. A. Madison 2007 article on the Federalist Blog, ‘What ‘Subject to the Jurisdiction Thereof” Really Means” citeing the Bingham quote (this is probably the source material for most of this natural born revisionism).


      (I see Madison updated his article yesterday, but I don’t know what was changed.)

      The Supreme Court in US v. Wong Kim Ark talks about jurisdiction and allegiance a great deal, concluding that those born here are completely under our jurisdiction, unless we by law exempt them (such as the families of ambassadors).

      @ Tim,

      I have read extensively from the blogs prior to Obama releasing his birth certificate. The universal view among Obama opponents was that if he was born in Hawaii, he was eligible to be president. “Everybody knew” that being born in the US was what Article II meant by “natural born citizen” and it was only after the propaganda/urban legend campaign that anyone except fringe anti-immigrant groups held such a view.

    42. @ACG
      You wrote: “Anyways, we can have this debate, but consider this: in the discussion of what “natural born citizen” means, I have the federal judiciary including the Supreme Court, all fifty state secretaries of state, and the entire legal academy.”

      To which I would add the entire US House of Representatives and the US Senate that unanimously certified Obama’s eligibility when they certified his election.

      1. In the eyes of the properly educated or pure and non-corrupted thinker they “unanimously certified” their terrifyingly disturbing level of ignorance.

    43. to “Dr Con”
      I can’t speak for all those of whom you speak; pre “certification of live birth posting”people. I can tell you that there is no conspiracy or urban legend as you prefer to call it ; among those of us who have always well understood the Pres eligibility requirement. However, the fact that there are some who confuse the terms native born* and natural born*, whether they dwell among us today or lived 100 yrs+ ago, does not alter the meaning. The birth certificate and a possible foreign birth is the “sexier” issue it is easier for most to grasp or more convenient to apprehend/ grab a hold of . Arthur Hinman ran with it back in old Chet Arthur’s day and the Phil Berg’s of the world are trumpeting it today ;much to the delight, I imagine, of both individuals at the center of the storm. It is a welcome distraction from the real issue and that is a far less’ sexy’ more sedate accounting. There is nothing “anti-immigrant” about better(no guarantees, mind you) insuring loyalty for the very top position in one’s country.
      Again, if you don’t care for it–there is a prescribed method for change and that is an Amendment not complete disregard for the law and the will of the Framers- our Founding Fathers -this was to best provide for the avoidance of competing allegiances and divided loyalties. Mr.Obama’s father was NOT an immigrant. He was a visitor who remained in the country only for so long a period as was commensurate with his studies. He then returned to his native land…forever.(one brief visit to US when his son was 12) He could , had he so desired and was successful in a bid , have become President of Kenya and we would now be dealing with the very situation that the natural born clause is designed to preclude for taking place; The Head of a foreign sovereignty reigning while their natural off-spring sits at the helm of another nation and in command of its armed forces.

      *native born=born in the country
      natural born=far more expansive; includes hereditary right
      the key is– status- at -birth . it is a fixed condition and remains with you for so long as you shall live unless you’ve come up with some way to go back in time to “unfix” things ;-)

    44. Non ABA Member · ·

      It matters not that Orly isn’t an ABA member. Lots of lawyers aren’t. I’m not. Nor does it matter that her law school is unaccredited. California allows graduates of unaccredited law schools to take the bar. What does matter is that Orly is batsh*t insane and, from reading her pleadings, has no business practicing law. If we’re lucky, she will get hit with Rule 11 sanctions for this garbage.

      1. I was just about to post this, glad to see someone with a brain is also in this thread. thanks.

        1. Taitz ‘s “credentials or lack thereof aside. Nothing but the discovery of 2 biological U.S. citizen parents or one U.S cit parent and the other impossible to be identified will make BO Jr a natural born citizen of the United States and therefore eligible for POTUS

    45. Vicki551 · ·

      f y blv tht th Phtshppd mg f “Crtfctn f Lv Brth” s shwn n prtsn wbsts s vld, lgl frm f vrfctn f n’s dntty, try shwng n ‘mg’ f yr wn brth crtfct n yr lptp whn y nd t g t Scl Scrty ffc t pply fr bnfts r t th DMV t pply fr drvr’s lcns r t th Pst ffc t pply fr pssprt nd s whr tht wll gt y. n n f bm’s wn bks, (dcty f Hp r Drms Frm My Fthr), h sttd n hs wn wrds tht h hd fnd cpy f hs ‘brth crtfct’ n th 1990’s btwn th pgs f bk h ws rdng. ’m sr h hd t shw n ctl, physcl cpy (nt cmptr mg) f hs ‘brth crtfct’ t lst 10 tms n hs lf fr vrs thngs sch s drvr’s lcns (n H. nd C., N. Y. nd L. whr h ttndd cllg), hs pssprt t g t ndns nd Pkstn n 1981 ( trp h, hmslf, mntnd n n f hs bks) nd ny fnncl d h my hv ppld fr. Snc h lrdy hd ‘brth crtfct’ n hs pssssn ll ths yrs, why wld h hv hd t btn nw n n Jn, 2007 t pt p n th wb? Cld t b tht th n(s) n hs pssssn ll tht tm shwd tht h ws nlgbl t rn fr, nd ssm, th ffc f PTS? Cld th ‘mg’ f ‘Crtfctn f Lv Brth’ pstd n hs wbst hv bn ‘Phtshppd’ (r thr prgrm) lctrnclly gnrtd cpy crtd frm smn ls’s crtfct? Why hs h bn wllng t spnd vr n mlln dllrs n ttrny’s fs fr lmst yr t fght vry sngl rqst r lwst t vd prdcng physcl, crtfd cpy f brth crtfct tht h hd prvsly cknwldgd tht h hd n hs pssssn? Why nt jst btn n frm th Stt f Hw fr th msly sm f $12.00? Why dd Mr. bm/Str hv LL hs cdmc rcrds sld lng bfr hs nmntn s th Dmcrtc cnddt ws fnlzd n gst, 2008? Hw wll th hstrns b bl t wrt n ccrt bgrphy fr ths 44th PTS wtht ccss t th ctl fcts bt hs lf? t wld hv nly tkn fw mnts t f hs hctc lctn schdl t shw th ctl, physcl brth crtfct frm whch th wbst mg ws md t rprsnttvs frm th tp thr r fr mjr ntwrks (BC, NBC, CBS nd FX) ll t th sm nws cnfrnc wy bck n Jn, 2008 whn th qstn f hs ‘ntrl brn ctznshp’ frst cm p t cmpltly pt ths ss t rst nc nd fr ll. nstd, h chs t snd t tms f ttrny’s t n xrbtnt cst t sbmt ‘mtns t dsmss’ fr vry sngl lwst. Th fcts f th css hv NVR bn sn by NY jdg s thy hv ll bn dsmssd fr ‘lck f stndng’ (nbdy hs rght t sk r knw). N jdg hs dsmssd ny cs n th mrts r fcts snc N jdg hs vr sn, r skd t s, th vdnc. bm’s ttrnys hv gttn ll css dsmssd wtht ny vdnc prsntd by thr sd. Th ffcls n Hw nvr sd tht th mg pstd n th wbst ws n mg f th crtfct thy hv n fl fr Brck bm n Hw. Thy jst sd tht thy hd n n fl fr hm. T mny nnswrd qstns tht cld ll g wy wth smpl $12.00 physcl cpy f hs rl Brth Crtfct. Hw mch mr mny wll h spnd n ttrnys t fght th lwsts bfr w fnd t th trth?

      Ed note: disemvoweled in the Pharyngula tradition. This one was just too crazy.

    46. Just the Facts:
      1. Obama was elected president of the United States of America.
      2. He will serve in that capacity until January 20, 2013.
      3. There is not a thing Birfers can do to change this, no matter how hard they try.
      4. End of Story

      1. and are we to glean from this…..that you are proud of being duped?

    47. Vicki551 · ·

      I don’t know how someone went in and changed my comment but (until they do it again) here is the original version.
      If you believe that the Photoshopped image of a “Certification of Live Birth” as shown on partisan websites is a valid, legal form of verification of one’s identity, try showing an ‘image’ of your own birth certificate on your laptop when you need to go to a Social Security office to apply for benefits or to the DMV to apply for a driver’s license or to the Post Office to apply for a passport and see where that will get you. In one of Obama’s own books, (Audacity of Hope or Dreams From My Father), he stated in his own words that he had found a copy of his ‘birth certificate’ in the 1990’s between the pages of a book he was reading. I’m sure he had to show an actual, physical copy (not computer image) of his ‘birth certificate’ at least 10 times in his life for various things such as a driver’s license (in HI. and CA., N. Y. and IL. where he attended college), his passport to go to Indonesia and Pakistan in 1981 (a trip he, himself, mentioned in one of his books) and any financial aid he may have applied for. Since he already had a ‘birth certificate’ in his possession all those years, why would he have had to obtain a new one in June, 2007 to put up on the web? Could it be that the one(s) in his possession all that time showed that he was ineligible to run for, and assume, the office of POTUS? Could the ‘image’ of a ‘Certification of Live Birth’ posted on his website have been a ‘Photoshopped’ (or other program) electronically generated copy created from someone else’s certificate? Why has he been willing to spend over one million dollars in attorney’s fees, for almost a year, to fight every single request or lawsuit to avoid producing a physical, certified copy of a birth certificate that he had previously acknowledged that he had in his possession? Why not just obtain one from the State of Hawaii for the measley sum of $12.00? Why did Mr. Obama/Soetoro have ALL his academic records sealed long before his nomination as the Democratic candidate was finalized in August, 2008? How will the historians be able to write an accurate biography for this 44th POTUS without access to the actual facts about his life? It would have only taken a few minutes out of his hectic election schedule to show the actual, physical birth certificate from which the website image was made to representatives from the top three or four major networks (ABC, NBC, CBS and FOX), all at the same news conference, way back in June, 2008 when the question of his ‘natural born citizenship’ first came up, to completely put this issue to rest once and for all. Instead, he chose to send out teams of attorneys at an exorbitant cost to submit ‘motions to dismiss’ for every single lawsuit. The facts of the cases have NEVER been seen by ANY judge as they have all been dismissed for ‘lack of standing’ (nobody has a right to ask or know). NO judge has dismissed any case on the merits or facts since NO judge has ever seen, or asked to see, the evidence. Obama’s attorneys have gotten all cases dismissed without any evidence presented by either side. The officials in Hawaii never said that the image posted on the website was an image of the certificate they have on file for Barack Obama in Hawaii. They just said that they had one on file for him. Too many unanswered questions that could all go away with a simple $12.00, physical CERTIFIED copy, of his real Birth Certificate. How much more money will he spend on attorneys to fight the lawsuits before we find out the truth?

      As POTUS, Barack Obama could easily cause the deaths of millions and affect the daily lives of billions around the world. Will you think his status as a legitimate POTUS important if he does? All we would like is the truth as he promised us during the campaign of an open and honest administration. He could start with the simple truth of his birth and citizenship status.

      1. catsy83 · ·

        /start discrediting false argumentation/

        Responses to some of the questions/issues you raise:

        1) Why has Obama not shown the certificate that he had since 1990?
        Ummm…maybe he lost it/it got destroyed? Maybe it’s somewhere in the attic of his grandparents house, and he hasn’t had the time to look? I don’t know; you don’t know. Stuff happens.
        As an example, my original birth certificate is in not too great a shape b/c it saw a LOT of moving and packing and unpacking. If it wasn’t for my mother’s meticulousness in keeping paperwork/important document, I probably would have lost it. To be honest, it’s still in my mom’s possession, tho I’m not even sure where my mom actually keeps it. Would take at least a day to find it.
        Who knows what happened to the certificate Obama describes in his book.

        2) He had to show it for to get his license.
        Not necessarily. Some states (CA, for example) permit proof of eligibility by showing your passport.

        3) He had to show it when he got his passport.
        You can prove the right to receive a US passport by showing your (and this is a quote from the State Dept. website):
        – Previously issued, undamaged U.S. Passport
        – Certified birth certificate issued by the city, county or state
        – Consular Report of Birth Abroad or Certification of Birth
        – Naturalization Certificate
        – Certificate of Citizenship
        You can’t get a passport without one of those documents. Now it is true, he could have submitted a naturalization certificate or a consular report of birth abroad, but there would be records of that then, no? As far as I know, no such records have been found or given, but I’m happy to be corrected on this one (if that is possible truthfully).

        4) The image was Photoshopped.
        If I recall correctly Hawaii has made an official statement that they have his certificate on file. I would think that if something was wrong with it, they would have mentioned it. Also, if the online posting were photoshopped, I’m sure someone in Hawaii would have complained by now.

        5) He spent tons of money on attorneys quashing this instead of 12 bucks to show a real certificate.
        Do we know that he spent tons of money? And even if he did, so what? People spend lots in attorney fees b/c attorneys tend to charge a lot – unless they’re salaried or work pro bono. Plus, once the lawsuits got filed, he had to respond or risk having summary judgment or default entered against him, and that would have caused way more problems.

        6) He could have showed his real certificate to the major networks.
        Why should he release his birth certificate to satisfy people’s curiousity? That’s private information. I don’t go around showing people my birth certificate. I doubt any elected official does. Also, someone correct me if I’m wrong: but does the parents’ SSN get put on a US birth certificate? (I was born outside the US and am a naturalized citizen – so I definitely would not be eligible for the presidency, I know.) I wouldn’t want my parents’ info out on the net where any identity thief can play with it.
        He has an official document (the issuance from Hawaii) that confirms he is a citizen. Any court of law would accept that as genuine under standard evidentiary rules relating to the authentication of documents and most likely would permit it to prove that he is a citizen under the hearsay exception for business documents.

        7) Hawaii officials never said the posted image is the one they have on file.
        No, they have not, but that’s because the posted image is an official document issued to Obama, so that he can say Hawaii has the birth certificate on file.
        In case you never requested certification of anything for anything, it’s just a piece of paper of saying, basically, “Yup, you can tell people we got it.” It’s not a document that the government keeps on file for the sake of keeping it on file, so there’s nothing to confirm. It’d be like confirming the confirmation – pointless.
        And again, if something was wrong with the image on the web, I’m sure someone would’ve noticed by now and said something.

        8) He could cause millions of deaths.
        Mmmm, Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon did. So did FDR. Bush caused plenty of American deaths, too. “Oh, but that was in the course of their duties,” you say. No sh**?! Exactly, that’s the point.
        If Obama sends American soldiers into war, it’s because it’ll be in the course of his duty. If he legalizes marijuana, it’ll be in the course of his duty. If he bans gay marriage, it’ll be in the course of his duty. If he bans the use of donkey’s as a means of transportation, it’ll be the course of his duty. Any of those things he could do – but they’re irrelevant to your argument.
        The point that you’re trying to convey is not what he’ll do as president. The point is whether he’s eligible to serve as president. Your statement about him causing American soldiers’ deaths has no evidentiary value other than to invoke an emotional response. It is deceptive and misleading and has no point in being in a logical argument that you try to make in the rest of your post.

        Next time, try learning how to argue well about the point you want to make before making it.

        /end discrediting false argumentation/

    48. To Vicki1551:

      When is you birthers going to stop postulating all those barefaced lies as the truth. There is no way in hell your people know how much BHO has spent on attorney fees. Stop it. For all you know these attorneys are doing this pro bono just to get the prestiege.

      To whom does he send his $12.00 birth certificate? How does he get original birth certificates to you 600,000 birthers? That should not cost more than $25,000,000.

      I find it strange that the first African-American is the White House is the first President where a little cabal , lead by a foreigner, is screaming for his birth certificate. Lincoln claimed he was born in the wilderness of Kentucky, but how do we know that he wasn’t born in Ontario of British citizens? There is no birth certificate, hospital records or doctor. This applies to most of the early presidents.

      I could go on and on about all the lies, but this is getting boring

      Stop repeating all the twaddle you are hearing from WND, the Glode, the National Enquirer, and all the birther blogs. Think and read for yourself.

      Within 30 years people of color are going to be in the majority, get used to it. If you want to live in an all Aryan nation, the only place that will be left is Iceland, where all the people are blond, blue eyed and Lutheran. Oh and socialist. lol

      1. That is exactly what “we” are doing thinking and reading for ourselves. don’t know about your reading material looks a bit suspect from that list of yours
        my preferred reading: the correspondence and writings & works of the Framers/Founders and all true thinker and the learned.

    49. I always thought that Orly was some joke created by 4channers. I mean, come on, O’RLY/Orly? She even looks like the O’RLY Owl that is an internet meme.

      Now she has this spat going on with her former webmaster and is so paranoid that everyone named “Lisa” must be fake names created by this webmaster.

    50. Cymraeg,

      What I find fascinating about you and people like you is that you seem intelligent, highly educated, yet you like millions of other Obama followers seem to foam at the mouth if anyone argues against you.

      I don’t care that Obama is a person of African American descent (or color as you so elequantly yet non PC stated). In fact I am proud that America actually voted for a non white traditional president.

      What I find repulsive is two things. First of all that he was a socialist educator in his community and never gave up his socialist ideas when he joined the Congress of the state of Illinois. He verbally agreed to uphold the Constitution of the United States of America and yet in his first 100 days has implemented personnel to do away with the first amendment of the Constitution and has violated the very Constitution he has sworn to uphold. One could even say he has committed acts of treason against the Constitution he has sworn to uphold.

      The other thing that I find insulting is that even though the US Government has rules pertaining to the citizens right to know under the freedom of iformation act has used his power and legal dogs (most definitely at tax payers expense – see his campaign fund payout of over $600,000.00)
      to try and conceal his birth certificate or the lack thereof.

      You and your legal pandering can not undo the fact that under the current law at the time he was born, his mother was too young to convey any naturalization to her child and his father was a dual British/Kenyan citizen.

      So where does the fealty or loyalty of Mr Obama lie? He came to American soil in his youth, but was not born here as in the case you tout of the Chinese person who was fighting for US Citizenship because he was born on American Soil.

      Obama’s own Grandmother has stated in the press that Obama was born in Kenya, she was there when he was born and saw his birth with her own eyes. So I guess that does away with your previously mentioned case.

      Pure and simple, Hussein Barak Obama is a dual citizen of the British Commonwealth and the Kenyan government. As a dual Citizen of foreign soil he is not fit for US presidency.

      No amount of legal tantrums or insulting of a great citizen of the United States will change the truth.

      The lady that you so freely insult was born in a Communist nation and she sees what this person is trying to do to this country and she wants to do what she has the right to do under the current US Constitution.

      The founding fathers created the Constitution to protect the Nations citizens to allow them to do this very thing. In fact our founding fathers founded this Nation to protect it’s people from you and people like Obama and Napalitano.

      No amount of inflating your ego will change the truth as it is.

      You can call us what you want, it does not kill the voice of freedom from tyranny.

      1. jaime olander · ·

        Wow. I had no idea. You people really are batsh@t crazy. He’s the president. Get a life already.

        1. He is the defacto , acting, putative, Pres but alas NOT the legal , Constitutionally authorized holder of this Office. Unless he can produce evidence that the man he claims as his biological father,B.O. Sr, was an immigrant to and citizen of the United States

      2. Obama’s grandmother DID NOT say he was born in Kenya. A full transcript of the conversation shows that the nimwit trying to get her to say that was stopped short. The translator became frustrated with him after he repeatedly tried to ‘catch’ an old woman who does not speak english and only speaks a village dialect that does not have the nuances of english. The translator clearly said, NO, he was born in Hawaii. The grandmother was HERE, in Kenya, when Obama was born. IN HAWAII.

    51. How did he do away with the First Amendment? Think very carefully before you answer.

      As for the “Kenyan grandma saw it!,” that’s a debunked rumor. Just like the “dual citizen =/= NBC” argument is a debunked legal idea.

    52. oneiroi · ·

      No amount of legal tantrums or insulting of a great citizen of the United States (Obama), will change his citizenship.

      Although I laugh at all the socialist accusations, because I think it ignores socialism in america and even what socialism is…but even if he went to The Socialism School of the USSR and thought socialist things and went to socialist meetings, there’s no law in existence that has a problem with that.

      I”ve said it to your ilk before, let’s fight for constitutional issues that actually affect people, than getting into some “legal tantrum”. Wiretapping, torturing, whatever…

    53. […] federal judges would make rulings based on “twittering.” How shameful. Dirty journalism has printed easily proven lies about Dr. Orly Taitz, i.e., she hasn’t been admitted to practice in front of the Supreme […]

    54. elephant4life · ·

      Some points seem to have been missed in your attempts to discredit this entire issue:

      1. Orly Taitz is a dentist, so she is entitled to call herself doctor. You can stop using the quotes now. (Or do you refer to your own dentist as “Mr.” or “Ms.”?)

      2. Since Obama traveled to Pakistan at a time when holders of US passports could not do so, under what claimed nationality did he travel there?

      3. Forget the “birth” issue for a moment – what about the adoption issue? Adopted by his stepfather Lolo Soetoro of Indonesia, and given the name “Barry Soetoro”, he became a citizen of Indonesia which did not permit dual status, therefore, his US citizenship was renounced. When and where did he apply to have his US Citizenship restored? If he did, wouldn’t his status therefore be naturalized, not natural-born?

      4. Why did he lie on his Illinois bar exam when he said he had never been known by any other name?

      People of your “ilk” – that is, those who want to believe that Obama is the new messiah, are the same type that blindly followed Jim Jones to his Kool-Aid fest, or Herff Applewhite to Heaven’s Gate – don’t know, and don’t want to know the truth. Rats following the pied piper to the sea. You wouldn’t recognize the truth if it jumped up and bit you, unless it could be used to destroy George W. Bush, “a great citizen of the United States”. You certainly are not interested in reading the documents supporting the anything-but-frivolous lawsuits filed by Taitz, Berg, et al, across the country. Why don’t you go do that, look at all the allegations, which, “cymraeg”, mr retired lawyer of forty years, according to the rules of civil procedure, they ADMITTED by default in failing to answer.

      Having facts that could put Obama and his minions behind bars for perjury, obstruction of justice, violation of immigration laws, willful violation of Federal Election Laws, or facing the penalties for treason against the United States, is just something you can’t countenance. Far, far easier to deride and slander the people who are fighting to preserve the Constitution for everyone, including you.

      Oh, editor, feel free to “sanitize” by removing vowels, since you apparently think “crazy” is merely pointing out uncomfortable facts and raising these kinds of questions.

      1. HappyHussein · ·

        Travel to Pakistan has never been banned for holders of US passports.

    55. Angela · ·

      The author’s line of reasoning is really reaching. Orly Taitz is admitted to practice in California, so she is a lawyer. The author seems to think that her lack of ABA membership is something noteworthy. I’m licensed to practice in 5 states, having taken and passed the bar exam in each one, and *I’m* not an ABA member. The ABA is nothing more than a voluntary organization, and has nothing whatever to do with licensure. Had the author investigated the issue before he posted this to his blog, he would have realized this. His arguments are entirely without merit.

      We all still want to know: Why is Obama spending hundreds of thousands of dollars attempting to stave off the inevitable disclosure of his birth certificate? If he really was born in Hawaii as he claims, why doesn’t he just prove it and put all of these issues to rest?

    56. Angela, what’s concerning about Orly is that she never went to an ABA accredited law school. So unless she corrects that, she can only practice in California, EVER. To me, that means she’s barely a lawyer, and the poor quality of her pleadings and mental processes proves that beyond a shadow of a doubt!

      As for the “hundreds of thousands of…,” what you’re missing is he HAS disclosed his birth certificate. Hawaiian officials saw it, and confirmed it. Legally that’s all he could ever be asked to do. He’s spending money to fight you and your ilk off because your claims are meritless harassment; notice he’s never had to do anything other than file a motion to dismiss, then sit and wait for the judge to read Orly’s complaints. After all, Orly’s complaints practically argue against themselves.

    57. I have yet to see any proof the Kenyan was born here. NONE. The longer the your leader continues to hide all of his documents, more and more people will wonder why. Your arguments are weak.

      1. I saw a good comment that sums up this lunacy:

        You ask what is 3+3. I tell you ‘6’. you refuse to believe me and there fore continue to proclaim that you have not seen proof of 3+3 bein equal to 6. There is nothing that can be done to convince you nutjobs that the President of this country, duly elected by a majority of voters, is a citizen. You have seen his birth certificate, you claim its a lie. You tell lies about ‘proof’ with manipulated facts and forged documents. They are thoroughly debunked, and yet you still hold them up a shout more lies. I think, as a group, you are a sickness in our nation.

        1. The problem with your example is that in any math class, you can’t just give the answer to the problem, you must provide proof of the validity of your answer by showing the path you used to reach that answer. All we’re asking for is the proof of the validity of the statement that Obama is a “natural born citizen” of the United States. Obama himself has NEVER issued any statement that the “Certification of Live Birth” that was presented on his behalf on the internet websites is a copy of his actual birth certificate. Only the long form, state embossed “Certificate of Live Birth” would have the specific information required to remove all doubt that he was actually born in the State of Hawaii. A “Certification of Live Birth” was issued by the State of Hawaii to anyone who requested it within one year of a birth and signed a statement that the individual for whom it was requested was born there. No proof or documentation was ever required to have the “Certification” issued. His own sister, who was born in Indonesia, has a Hawaiian “Certification of Live Birth”. I doubt she also has a Hawaiian “Certificate of Live Birth” which would include the hospital she was born in, the delivering physician’s name, height and weight, witnesses or any other information pertinent to verification of a birth having actually taken place in the State of Hawaii. I’m 99 % certain that if Obama had a Hawaii “Certificate of Live Birth” with the corroborating information of hospital, physician, height and weight and witnesses that would validate the claims made by his sycophants on the websites, it would have been forthcoming a long time ago when the question first came up. I have no doubt whatsoever that Obama was, in fact, “born alive”, thus a “Certification of Live Birth” issued by the State of Hawaii would be a true statement of that fact. It in no way proves that that “live birth” took place on Hawaiian soil any more than his sister Maya’s does.
          All we are asking for is “proof” that would be acceptable in a court of law. No court has ever allowed a case to proceed to the point of ‘discovery’ where actual evidence must be presented. Therefore, no court has EVER ruled on the merits of the question. We are NOT asking that he show his “Certificate of Live Birth” to all of us who are asking. We only ask that it is presented to an unimpeachable source (or sources) who will attest to that fact under penalty of perjury. The Hawaiian officials have NEVER said that the “Certification” shown on the internet is an exact replica of whatever certificate they have on file for Obama and have never verified ANY information written on the certificate they have on file. They have only stated that they have one on file for him. It would be impossible for anyone to doubt that Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. was born alive. His very existence is the proof of that undisputed fact. What is being questioned are the specifics of that event which would document and validate his eligibility to hold the office of POTUS as enumerated in the Constitution.

      2. I have never seen any proof that the world is round NONE. The space program is a fake, science is a conspiracy, ships disappear in the distance because of light refractions, astronomy is a hoax. The more you prove to me the earth is round the more I know it is not. See how stupid you sound. Just because you have some need to think the way you do, doesn’t make you right. Go back to your little circle jerk friends and quit bothering the rest of the world.

    58. Barry, we’ve been down this road. The burden of proof is yours, not mine. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

    59. Brigand · ·

      This is hilarious…I can’t believe I actually read all these posts…I need to first state that I am a degreed engineer and am therefore intellectually superior to all lawyers…I’ve seen and heard enough to know that I’d like to see some “proof”, and not a bunch of nonsensical words written by lawyers and their “ilk”…let the grand juries begin and let’s all see how this plays out.

    60. I’ll let you interpret the law for me if you let me build your bridges for you :).

      1. touche!

    61. Brigand · ·

      Um…you need me to build bridges for you, unless we can build them out of words…there is no need for laws nor a need for an interpretation thereof…I find the concept of men making and interpreting laws both self-righteous and absurd…although very poetic, law beyond the Ten Commandments is a ruse…there is no such thing as impartiality or objectivity except in the laboratory. Alas, they try…

      1. Ah, engineer, don’t forget the need for lawyers when the contractor doesn’t build your bridge as spec’d.

        We all work together to make the system work. Never did figure out why the lawyers make more than us, though! –an architect.

    62. So your position is, abolish the Constitution and implement biblical law, subject only to a plain-meaning interpretation?

      Just want to know before I point out the flaws.

    63. Brigand · ·

      Perhaps I’m too much of an idealist…humanity is not yet far enough evolved for true “anarchy”…I’m convinced there are sufficient resources and intellect on this planet that there ought be no such thing as “scarcity”…and no need for law…silly humans…

    64. Yes, I see Brigand, an society where resources are distributed equally and were a powerful minority can not horde or steal. But wait! What about all those silly humans who are so prone to greed and stupidity and violence, how are we to contend with them? hmmm, what if we were to establish some sort of code … codified and enforced by the community, most likely by individuals specialized for this work, to keep the ner-do-wells in check, but what, oh shit, we got us some laws now, damn. Please, there has never been a society that is self enforcing and the law has always been with us , it just wasn’t always written down. Also, as another degreed, engineer I request that you take your juvenile sense of superiority an blow it out your ass for the good of the profession.

    65. PassingBystander · ·

      Darn! I ran out of popcorn AND comments at the same time.

      I truly hope this “ilk exchange” will continue.

      By the way, ACG, you’ve done a good job of addressing each comment as they came up -except for one: #54 elephant4life // May 5, 2009 at 8:12 am

      Let me repost in case you overlooked them:

      1. Orly Taitz is a dentist, so she is entitled to call herself doctor. You can stop using the quotes now. (Or do you refer to your own dentist as “Mr.” or “Ms.”?)

      2. Since Obama traveled to Pakistan at a time when holders of US passports could not do so, under what claimed nationality did he travel there?

      3. Forget the “birth” issue for a moment – what about the adoption issue? Adopted by his stepfather Lolo Soetoro of Indonesia, and given the name “Barry Soetoro”, he became a citizen of Indonesia which did not permit dual status, therefore, his US citizenship was renounced. When and where did he apply to have his US Citizenship restored? If he did, wouldn’t his status therefore be naturalized, not natural-born?

      4. Why did he lie on his Illinois bar exam when he said he had never been known by any other name?

      Now if you’ll excuse me I have to go make some more popcorn and refresh the comments.

    66. dgsmithmd · ·

      I have never been to this website before…fount it through a search. I am shocked at the responses to this article. Who cares if she is a lawyer! The real story is that Obama appears to have pulled off the biggest hoax in American history. If he is a citized, why in the world would he not just pay the $19.95 (or whatever it is) to release the vaulted copy of his birth certificate and make this all go away rather that spend the >$1,000,000.00 that he has spent on lawyers to defend it. Something is not right. This is not just a right-winged conspiracy. Dems and republicans alike are upset about this. Philip Berg has been a lifelong Democrat and he started this with the first lawsuit. Everyone better wake up before we are living in a Socialist country!

      1. “Obama appears to have pulled off the biggest hoax in American history”….Were you under a rock during the Bush years? You do remember that there weren’t any WMDs, right?

    67. dgsmithmd · ·

      By the way, you are wrong on the birth certificate issue. Chiyome Fukino stated “I as Director of Health for the State of Hawaii, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.”

      But the important issue is what was not stated. While the certificate on file is “in accordance with state policies and procedures,” there’s no affirmation that the document reflects a Hawaiian birth. Nor is there any explanation for the image of the Hawaii state “certification of live birth” that has been posted by Obama on the Internet, purporting to document his Hawaiian birth, even though Hawaiian procedures at the time allowed that document to be issued to parents of children not born in the state. Why would an individual with a verified birth certificate also have a “certification of live birth?”

      This NEEDS to be examined!

      1. catsy83 · ·

        Questions for you, dgsmithmd, and anyone else out there:
        Why would Hawaii have his original birth certificate on file unless it was issued there?
        And why would they issue it unless he was born there?
        Again, I’m not a natural born citizen, having been born in a formerly Socialist/Communist country (which is why I always grin at the socialism attacks – we’re no where near France, heck, no where near Germany in terms of socialism….lol). I don’t know how you guys handle birth certificates in this country, so I’d appreciate it if someone could enlighten me.

        1. Oneiroi · ·

          You see, Hawaii is just holding A certificate for their part of the conspiracy.

          The other part of the conspiracy is everyone putting the birth announcement in the Hawaii papers, in hopes that one day Barack Obama would become president.

    68. obsolete · ·

      This is from the Chicago Tribune’s Washington Bureau blog, called “The Swamp” on Nov 3, 2008.


      Obama Hawaiian-born: Citizen for sure
      Posted November 3, 2008 3:45 PM
      The Swamp

      by James Janega

      Seeking to squelch persistent rumors that Sen. Barack Obama isn’t eligible to become president because he allegedly was born outside the United States, a Hawaiian official has confirmed she has “personally seen and verified” that the state “has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate” – meaning Obama was born in the Aloha state, and is therefore an American citizen.

      “There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate. State law (Hawai’i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record,” reads an Oct. 31 statement from Hawaii’s Dr. Chiyome Fukino, who heads the Hawaii office that oversees health records — including birth certificates.

      “Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai’i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai’i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures,” Fukino said in the three paragraph statement.

      “No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawai’i,” the statement concludes.

      Does this mean Obama was born in Hawaii?

      “Yes,” said Hawaii Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo, in both email and telephone interviews with the Tribune. “That’s what Dr. Fukino is saying.”

      In the Tribune’s political blog “The Swamp” last month, reporter Mark Silva produced a copy of Obama’s birth certificate and addressed the birthplaces of both presidential candidates.

      Sen. John McCain, Silva wrote, “was born to American parents, his father serving as a submariner in the U.S. Navy at the Coco Solo base in the Panama Canal Zone when and where young John Sidney McCain III was born. Barack Hussein Obama II — and yes, he actually has joked that he got his middle name from people who never thought he’d be running for president — was born in Hawaii, in 1961, and has a birth certificate to show for it.”

      Conservative critics have suggested that Obama may have been born outside the U.S. and is not a “natural born citizen” eligible for the presidency. But they present no evidence that he was born anywhere other than Hawaii.

      The issue of whether Obama is a “natural born citizen”–which means “a citizen at birth”–was raised in a June 10 article on the conservative Web site World Net Daily.

      Article II of the U.S. Constitution says, “No Person except a natural born citizen, or a Citizen of the United States … shall be eligible to the Office of President.”

      Acts of Congress in 1790 and 1795 clarify that “the children of citizens of the United States … shall be considered as natural born citizens.”

      Republican candidate John McCain faced, and overcame, similar questions because he was born in the Panama Canal Zone while his Navy father was stationed there.

      Hawaii was a state in 1961, when Obama was born. Any person born in the U.S. automatically is a “natural born citizen,” said University of California Los Angeles law professor Eugene Volokh.

      Even if a person is born outside the United States, courts have ruled any child born to at least one U.S. citizen is a U.S. citizen, Volokh said. Stanley Ann Dunham would have counted even if Obama’s Kenyan father did not.

      In June, the Obama campaign released an electronic copy of the certificate bearing the seal of the State of Hawaii Department of Health and showing that Barack Hussein Obama II was born to mother Stanley Ann Dunham in Honolulu at 7:24 p.m. on Aug. 4, 1961.

      Obama campaign spokesman Ben LaBolt said last week that the document was authentic.

      And now, so has the state of Hawaii.”

      I hope this helps, but I somehow doubt it will….

      There was NOT a travel ban to Pakistan at that time (another birther zombie lie!) The NYT ran an article in 1981 about American travel to Pakistan.

      There is NO EVIDENCE that Obama was adopted by his step-father. Oh, you mean his school record filled out by his step-father? The one that lists his birthplace as Hawaii?
      A child under the age of 18 CAN NOT give up his U.S. citizenship, nor can his parents surrender it for him.

      Why do the birthers think that Indonesian law trumps U.S. law when it comes to who the U.S. considers a citizen????

      1. this has to be one of the biggest piles of basura ever composed
        scary stuff

    69. James F · ·

      I’m going to hazard a guess that Brigand exemplifies the Salem hypothesis. Fortunately, this is counteracted by Jello.

    70. Lisa Jones · ·

      So you are saying that being credentialed is necessary in order to serve? Let’s see then, that would rule out Obama since he is only qualified to be a community organizer, but here he is, the Commander in Chief and never saw a military uniform of the United States until they saluted him. Notice how the marines don’t turn to take his order. Ask a marine, they’ll tell you.

    71. Thanks to all my defenders, who’ve answered the few charges I forgot!

      As for you Lisa, it’s incredibly dangerous to permit, and irresponsible to applaud, military insubordination to a duly democratically elected leader. Presumably you’d have a military coup, rather than live with the electorate’s decision. For shame. That’s not how democracy works. Go to Venezuela; you’ll be happier there.

      As for Obama’s qualifications, he’s admittedly brilliant, and more qualified than Abraham Lincoln was when he took his post. How did he do? I’ll concede you secessionist types probably aren’t fans…

    72. Wow. This thread is still going on? Congratulations, Ames, on attracting a flood of nutjobs to your site for the second time—keep up the good work! : )

    73. O'fraud · ·

      Whatever comments you gave, you showed no facts.

      When you commented more, you just did more to prove obama a liar.

    74. Simply, Lawyer Dr. Orly Taitz wants to know if what obama has told the people is true.
      Has he been telling lies?
      Show us what you has said!

    75. Bob Miller · ·

      Like many Americans I want the TRUTH about Obama.

      I am not a lawyer and do not hide behind the law or find a loophole around the reading of law.

      As a matter of fact, I firmly believe that if you have one hundred lawyers do what ACG has done.. that you will find many different variations in how the laws apply.

      I for one am amazed that others have elected a POTUS that no one can verify any information about him since he entered high school in Hi.

      We only know what he has told us in his books, and no one is alive that can dispute his words. Is it not amazing that all records regarding his birth, his scholarships, grades, entrance exam scores and admission records are SEALED by a lawyers.

      You see there are no written, factual information available to disprove or prove that Obama is not a Naturalized Citizen. ( And it appears there is no LEGAL finding that says what a Naturalized Citizen.

      I would like to know… what he is hiding and how the legal profession is protecting one of their own.

      1. “You see there are no written, factual information available to disprove or prove that Pres Obama is not a Naturalized Citizen”.

        You say there is no factual proof that President Obama is not a citizen. So why do you only try to discount facts that prove he is. The burden is yours. Also you say “no one is alive that can dispute his words”? Are you saying he has killed everyone he has ever known to cover up the conspiracy that now involves all lawyers?

    76. Well….this thread was an interesting read. I feel I learned a lot about both sides of this argument.

      As an investigative journalist, of course
      I have a couple of lingering questions concerning this matter. Why, indeed will Obama not just allow Hawaii officials to release the original? I read somewhere that his lawyers are claiming that it would be too embarrassing. How so?

      Also, why wont either hospital claim his birth? I have contacted both.

      Why wont he allow us to see his school records?

      These are questions that have not been answered to either sides satisfaction in this thread.

      I did see on another website that there are divorce papers that confirm that Obama was adopted. Could Obama have then attended school with aid as an Indonesian? Is that why his school records are sealed?

      It seems to me that if there were nothing to hide, this whole mess could be cleared up quite easily.

      But, maybe what is hidden is not what anyone thinks. The whole subject is very interesting to me because of the historic nature of this election and the chaos that would accompany an invalid presidency.

      If anyone has any insights into the questions I still have, it would be greatly appreciated!

      1. Legal Eagle · ·

        I read on a website that the moon is made of green cheese, so it must be true.

      2. I think its been stated clearly by Hawaiian officials that the ‘original’ paper copy was destroyed with many others when the state went paperless. It has nothing to do with hiding anything.

    77. Crystal · ·

      She hasn’t done a thing but thwart her own efforts. Taitz doesn’t want anything to come of this, just creating illusions on your dime. Go check out her blog for youself.

    78. ACG….just checked the quote and you are wrong. The original quote was not altered. Bingham did state that both parents had to be citizens……

      Does anyone have any more answers to the earlier questions? This is a puzzle with lots of missing pieces!

    79. Carol, I did note the quote was correct, I was reading the wrong version. That doesn’t change the fact that the speaker doesn’t matter. He’s not an authoritative speaker on the natural born citizenship cause, and I think I distinguished it in some other way… find the related post yourself…

    80. Sure thing ACG…..Hey, can you help me with some of those other lingering questions?

    81. Carol, who are you an investigative journalist for? The real question you should be asking yourself is why – if there was something hidden, or if the “hidden” documents were relevant to anything at all – why the most prominent people to care about this issue are a correspondence-school lawyer and a 9/11 Truther?

    82. I am an independent contractor. I have sold articles to a variety of different publications. Lately, I have had some requests (for some strange reason) overseas for information on this subject.

      You are right. I have asked myself that question about a lack of interest here……but that alone does not answer my other questions. It does make me wonder why other people don’t also want to know the answers.

      I am trained to be unbiased and have been practicing that since I left journalism school in the 80’s. Emotional indifference has become quite easy fo me. That makes me unpopular with both sides, I guess.

      One thing I do not like is unanswered questions, yours or mine;0)

      If you come across anything….let me know by giving it a post here…..

      I hate having to write an incomplete story. Reminds me of an episode of Dallas only wihtout the promise of another episode. LOL

    83. Sorry for the typos….I am a bit tired today!

    84. Your just another flipping liberal sewer vent…at least what is coming out of your mouth smells like that….

      If Dr Taitz had actually violated any of those rules your mentioning, she would have already been called on it, no one would waste time talking about it on a blog, if they actually could stop her with evidence….

      The fact that several legal decisions have gone in favor of this case indicates there is substantive evidence legal argument.

      The only “denialist” around here is President Obama. He could kill this thing in a heartbeat by presenting the requested documents, but obviously he has something to hide.

      The primary people that you can convince with your false attributions are other liberal neanderthals like yourself.

    85. Gotchaye · ·

      Carol – for my part, I’m not terribly interested for two reasons. First, I think it overwhelmingly likely that the birthers are just wingnuts, and that the reason Obama hasn’t made an effort to refute their claims is because they’re a fringe group and no one really cares what they think – it all sounds a bit like supposing that the Pentagon is hiding something about UFOs because they don’t cooperate with that crowd’s demands for information. Second, I don’t really see why I should care whether or not Obama is a natural born citizen. It just doesn’t seem like an important qualification for the office. The UFO hunters have a much more important story, I think.

    86. A fool and his rights are soon parted….

      Its an important requirement BECAUSE its in the Constitution….

      If the legal citizens of America see fit to amendout (with a Constitutional Convention)that requirement, then so be it…

      But until then, the Constitution is the Law

    87. capacommie · ·

      John Bingham wrote the 14th Amendment. John Bingham defined a Natural Born Citizen in Congress in 1866. Note his consistency with note his consistency w/ Vattel in 1758 – The Law of Nations Tome 1 pg 197, upon which the Constitution is based. Article II does not allow generic US Citizens to be President, just Natural Born Citizens. Obama agrees to the definition of a natural born citizen in cosponsoring S.R. 511. So does Clinton, Leahy, McCaskill, etc.

      John Bingham (OH):
      “ [I] find no fault with the introductory clause [S 61 Bill], which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen…. . . ”

      – John Bingham in the United States House on March 9, 1866 (Cong. Globe, 39th, 1st Sess., 1291 (1866))

      Stop kidding yourselves, Obama knows, everyone knows, he’s not eligible to be president. He is an illegal installed usurper. Period.

      1. S. R. 511, was a feint to deflect the question being asked about Obama. It specifically did NOT include Obama in its premise and he was one of the signatories to give the impression that his status was included in the conclusion. He does NOT fit in the category of “both parents being American citizens”. I have heard of no one, on either side of the debate, claiming that Obama, SR. was an American citizen or even an ‘immigrant’. If all it takes to be a “natural born citizen” is to make it across the border and drop a baby, then in 36 years we can have a POTUS that was conceived and born of radical Islamists who made it across the border in time to give birth regardless of their country of citizenship and allegiance. Just inculcate him in the ways of Jihad secretly, making sure to keep his public persona an unblemished myth and, voila!, all your Mahdi dreams of the last 1400 years will come true. Obama admits in his own book that he learned how to put white people at ease by being non-threatening and deferential. He also admits it was just an act and he learned to do it very well. Kind of like Eddie Haskell from the old “Leave It To Beaver Series” of the 1950’s/60’s.

        1. That was one of the most nakedly racist comments ever to cross the pages of this blog.

          And, setting aside your legal failings, note that it’s often the case that voters not courts implement constitutional safeguards. You could get a Muslim child born of two citizens, too, who tried to use the same ploy. Your remedy is to vote no, not to make up remarkably insensitive, KKK-worthy quasilegal diatribes about the dangers of them thar coloreds. Go away.

    88. capacommie · ·

      And the fallacy that Obama has not responded to challenges is not supported by the fact that Obama has spent $700,000 of campaign contributions, illegally, on legal fees to NOT show his bonafides including his Occidental admissions records (witnesses state he went there as a foreign student on grants) and vault birth certificate. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2232359/posts
      He’s shown his COLB which is a)a forgery and b) HI by law handed them out like candy to foreigners and c)doesn’t even matter because his father was a Kenyan…
      And here Edwards was investigated by the FEC for spending a “mere” $100,000 on his mistress!
      Lt. Quarles Harris, chief witness in Obama’s passport probe (since he traveled as an adult on an Indonesian passport) was murdered in his car in front of his church.
      Are you such idealogues that even when presented with mountains of data, legal precedents, irrefutable facts, that you still defend this fraud?
      What has he done besides bankrupt the country and take over banks, insurance companies, businesses, gut domestic security, threaten to release terrorists–even in to the US prison population where they can radicalize other prisoners, lie about taxes…and everything else?
      Quadrupled the Bush deficit in his first 8 weeks? $8.9 Billion to ACORN? $10 Trillion debt? And you don’t even know where he put a couple trillion of that!

    89. capacommie · ·

      Gotchaye: The fact is he is NOT nor can he ever be a natural born citizen. The reason this is important is that he, as installed usurper, invalidates the Constitution, which is merely a contract binding independent nation states in the Union. This contract is legally null and void and any state may secede, he will fail on any challenge if it comes to this. Everything he signs is legally null and void, even internationally. Edwin Vieira, JD, Ph.D. wrote an article warning of this. Unlike Obama he actually writes scholarly works.

    90. I visited Orly’s site and she has posted her ABA membership. Seems internet lies and rumors grow everywhere….

      Gotchaye, even if you are not interested in upholding the Constitution, why would Obama not release his school records? That is the million dollar question for me.

    91. Capa: Obama is a published author. His Note for the Harvard Law Review was covered extensively by journalists, and anyone in-the-know is aware that he would have almost had to have written one, but it would’ve been anonymous (in keeping with HLR practice).

      Further, I find it telling that you people never care about things like the Constitution or deficits until a Democrat is in the White House. Ronald Reagan created the modern deficit by irresponsibly slashing taxes while increasing spending, a practice that George W. Bush continued. Where were you people then? Bush devised a national security regime with the explicit goal of skirting constitutional limitations, just to try to score ideological points, making us less safe and putting politics above security. Where were you people then?

      As for John Bingham, he is an important man, but he did not “write” the Fourteenth Amendment. Congress did, and many other big names played an equal or bigger part than Bingham (Trumbull for one). Further, the quote you’re citing comes from debates on the Civil Rights Act, not the Fourteenth Amendment, and his interpretation of the natural born citizenship clause was explicitly torn down within a generation of the quote, by the Supreme Court. You don’t get more wrong than that.

      As for why he’s not released his records, the answer is simple: either he has, as in the case of the birth certificate (all he has to do is release it to the relevant officials, which he’s done), or he has no need to, as in the case of school records.

    92. As for her ABA membership, the site doesn’t list her, and her law school doesn’t entitle her to membership. If she posted something, it’s probably fraudulent, just like everything she does.

    93. capacommie · ·

      Well I wasn’t of politically cognizant age in the Reagan era, and actually I don’t condone deficits at all–let alone Obama’s indescribably huge unprecedented bill to our great-grandchildren meant to break and bankrupt the USA because he intrinsically rejects the idea of American exceptionalism.

      Now as for your link pertaining to US v Wong Kim Ark, those parents lived in the USA PERMANENTLY, i.e. had a permanent residence, a long standing house. Obama Sr. barely stayed to impregnate, get a degree, then beat feet back to Kenya, home sweet home. He never made permanent domicile in the USA, never wanted to become an American, EVER. And your cultmaster lied at his unauguration stating that he was an “immigrant”. I notice you ignored The Law of Nations, which is the entire basis of the Constitution. The term “natural born citizen” has been CODIFIED since 1758 in The Law of Nations, it has precedent as such. There are further legal precedents in Perkins v. Elg validating jus soli jus sanguinus as the definition of a natural born US Citizen. Then read S.R. 511 signed off by your cultmaster, where he AGREES with the definition of “natural born citizen” as per The Law of Nations. BOTH parents, as in PLURAL–parents must be US Citizens AND the child born on US soil for that child to be a natural born citizen.

      Note Article II s.1 excludes generic US Citizens as eligible for the presidency. Obama, if we’re being extremely generous as he has provided no bonafides, was not even a US Citizen at birth (by law actually his mother was not old enough to confer US citizenship upon him) AND since his father was Kenyan things bode even worse for the prospect of qualifying Obama as eligible. At that moment of birth, in some hospital (he’s said it was either Kapiolani or Queens, and neither state his mother was ever a patient there) in Hawaii, he was a British Citizen, and so by the British Nationality Act, his citizenship was conferred by his father. Well, still you will say, though you have no proof, that he was born in Hawaii therefore insist that he is a US Citizen, so let’s be generous and start there. He is born a British / US dual Citizen, he is still not a natural born citizen. But let’s say he WAS a US Citizen at birth, he was still not a natural born citizen, (and this is assuming he was born in Hawaii with no legal proof thereof), then he lost his citizenship in Indonesia as he used a passport as an adult, and then regained it as he was adopted by Crow Indians last Spring (truth). But let’s back up to where you desperately want things to be…that Obama was a US citizen at birth because you say so, without proof, he was born in Hawaii, and nothing else matters (so nyah?). Even so, he is not a natural born US citizen.

      Let’s go even further, it is staring you right in the face in the US Constitution. The 14th Amendment never defines a natural born citizen, however it does describe all permutations of generic US Citizens “born or naturalized”. Since NBCs can never be naturalized, they are a distinct category from the term US Citizen, and this is reinforced by Article II s.1 which states that POTUS must be NBC OR US Citizen (the OR is critical) alive at time of ratification. They are clearly distinct. This distinction is further reinforced by the fact that Article I vets Senate/House members based on the 14th but Article II clearly does not. One can merely be a generic US citizen and be in a Senator or a Congressperson, one can (Constitutionally) never be POTUS and be a generic US Citizen.

      So, we have CODIFIED definition, multiple legal precedents, logical presentation within the Constitution, and most telling–agreement by your own cultmaster in writing, on a legal document in the Senate archives, as to the definition of NBC. Seeing as how he signed off on a legal document defining NBC, and that he has never said he was a natural born citizen himself (he did call himself native born, which is different–there are four types of citizenship, native, naturalized, by statute and natural born– again without bonafides), and that he taught Constitutional Law, he is knowingly perpetrating fraud and treason upon the American people.

      There are tens of millions of people aware of this, it is not going away with some twisted interpretation of Wong Kim Ark who held permanent domicile,

      McCain is just as culpable, because he is neither a NBC, and the depth and breadth of this act on America is unprecedented. Pelosi is a precedent liar, she certified Obama knowing he was ineligible as POTUS, and as we see he is not loyal to America, he is selling America down the river. He is exactly what the founders warned us about.

      1. Legal Eagle · ·

        Hospitals, doctors and other providers of medical services are forbidden by federal law (HIPAA) from releasing medical information without permission of the patient. They cannot even say “B. Obama was born at this hospital,” because that is medical information. Do you want the hospitals to break federal law?

        Where do you get the idea that B.O.’s mom could not make him a citizen? Children of U.S. citizens are citizens.

    94. I called….Orly has been a member in good standing since 2002. So…..it would seem there is no fraud there.

      As far as the school records are concerned, I believe that it is of enormous concern when a person spends money to fight a subpoena to keep them hidden. That grabs my curiosity much more. What’s to hide? Goodness….who cares if he made a low grade here and there?

      I cannot get a suitable answer for this question. On leftist blogs I hear what you said…..that it doesn’t matter and that’s why. On right wing blogs I hear it is because he was an exchange student receiving aid as such.

      From my research on past presidents, their lives were pretty much open books………..How has this president been able to get away with this lack of transparency?

      I contacted Occidental and they told me that the subpoena they have received is being fought in the courts right now. Why?

    95. Before we go any farther on misinterpreting existing law, here’s a question: which one of us has a JD? Hint: it’s not you. Wong Kim Ark and Perkins v. Elg both cut in my favor, not yours. Read them closely, and re-read the explanation of it that I linked to you.

      As for the “dual loyalties” thing, there are multiple problems with your argument. First, dual citizenship didn’t exist in the founding era. It’s an invention of the modern era not contemplated by the drafters of the Constitution, whose only concern was that the President be an American at birth. Obama was born in the allegiance of the United States, on U.S. soil, and no operation of foreign law can deprive him of that status: a foreign definition of citizenship emphatically cannot be allowed to deprive an American of his or her status, lest we get in the business of giving foreign governments subtle vetoes over our elections.

      As for the “OMG OBAMA HATES AMERICAN EXCEPTIONALISM” nonsense, it’s just that.

        It was contemplated(for ’bout a nanosecond and REJECTED.

    96. Carol, here’s a thought. If you actually care, try to get the information some other way. Figure out who would’ve been Obama’s professors, etc., and contact them individually. If they’ve got something incriminating and worth telling, most may hide it, but you’ll hear it from someone, guaranteed. I’d bet the worst you’d find is that he took a class from Edward Said, or some controversial professor, and didn’t want the conservative newsmedia drawing a false equivalence between student and professor.

    97. Interesting thought ACG. Taking questionable classes might explain it. We all know how that kind of thing can be magnified.

      I wonder why his Columbia and Harvard records are closed too. As far as I know, those are not under subpeona.

      I will dig a little deeper……….finding a faculty directory for his freshman year shouldn’t be too hard!

    98. Exactly. Worst worst case is he tried to bury something the racists and crazy birthers would jump onto and blow completely out of proportion. I don’t blame him for that.

      As for you… once you find nothing, please try to investigate and report on something that sane people care about.

    99. capacommie · ·


      Perkins v. Elg’s (1939) importance is that it actually gives examples of what a “natural born citizen” of the U.S. is; what a “citizen” of the U.S. is; and what a “native born citizen” of the U. S.

      In this case, the U. S. Supreme Court found that a “natural born citizen” is a person who is born of two U.S. citizen parents AND born in the mainland of U.S.


      On cross appeals, the Court of Appeals affirmed the decree, 69 App.D.C. 175, 99 F.2d 408. Certiorari was granted, December 5, 1938, 305 U.S. 591, 59 S.Ct. 245, 83 L.Ed. –. First.– On her birth in New York, the plaintiff became a citizen of the United States. Civil Rights Act of 1866:

      Ms. Elg was found to be a “citizen” because she was born in the mainland USA (New York)

      Native Born citizen:

      This principle was clearly stated by Attorney General Edwards Pierrepont in his letter of advice to the Secretary of State Hamilton Fish, in Steinkauler’s Case, 1875, 15 Op.Atty.Gen. 15. The facts were these: One Steinkauler, a Prussian subject by birth, emigrated to the United States in 1848, was naturalized in 1854, and in the following year had a son who was born in St. Louis. Four years later Steinkauler returned to Germany taking this child and became domiciled at Weisbaden where they continuously resided. When the son reached the age of twenty years the German Government called upon him to report for military duty and his father then invoked the intervention of the American Legation on the ground that his son was a native citizen of the United States. To an inquiry by our Minister, the father declined to give an assurance that the son would return to this country within a reasonable time. On reviewing the pertinent points in the case, including the Naturalization Treaty of 1868 with North Germany, 15 Stat. 615, the Attorney General reached the following conclusion: ‘Young Steinkauler is a native-born American citizen.

      Mr. Steinkauler was found to be a “native born citizen” because he was born in the mainland USA (St. Louis)

      Natural Born Citizen:

      U. S. Supreme Court’s Relevant Facts: Miss Elg was born in Brooklyn, New York, on October 2, 1907. Her parents, who were natives of Sweden, emigrated to the United States sometime prior to 1906 and her father was naturalized here in that year. In 1911, her mother took her to Sweden where she continued to reside until September 7, 1929. Her father went to Sweden in 1922 and has not since returned to the United States. In November, 1934, he made a statement before an American consul in Sweden that he had voluntarily expatriated himself for the reason that he did not desire to retain the status of an American citizen and wished to preserve his allegiance to Sweden. [Perkins v. Elg, 307 U.S. 325, 327 (1939).]

      U. S. Supreme Court’s Holding: The court below, properly recognizing the existence of an actual controversy with the defendants (Aetna Life Ins. Co. v. Haworth, 300 U.S. 227, 57 S.Ct. 461, 81 L.Ed. 617, 108 A.L.R. 1000) declared Miss Elg ‘to be a natural born citizen of the United States’ (99 F.2d 414) and we think that the decree should include the Secretary of State as well as the other defendants. [Perkins v. Elg, 307 U.S. 325, 350 (1939).]

      Rationale of the logic is as follows: The U. S. Supreme Court in 1939 held that Elg was a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN because she was born in Brooklyn, New York on October 2, 1907, her father was naturalized as a U.S. citizen in 1906 under the Naturalization Act of 1906, and her mother derived her US citizenship in 1907 under the Expatriation Act of 1907. The Expatriation Act of 1907 extended the logic linking a woman’s citizenship to her marital status and the status of her spouse.

      Ms. Elg was found to be a “natural born citizen” because she was born in the mainland USA (New York) of TWO US citizen parents.

      As the above chart clearly shows:

      You can be a “citizen” under the following circumstances:

      1. You were born of one citizen parent (Obama), or
      2. You were born in the US mainland (anchor babies — DEL), or
      3. You were naturalized (Schwarzenegger).

      To be a “natural born citizen” you must be born in the US mainland of two US citizen parents.

      Obama is a citizen — not a natural born citizen because he was (probably though never proven) born in the State of Hawaii of one US citizen parent.

      Elg’s Mother derived US citizenship when her father was naturalized. This was automatic — it’s called derivative citizenship. These are the forms of derivative citizenship that were effective due to federal statute at the time Elg was born:

      1. An alien woman obtained automatic US citizenship when she married a US citizen male.

      2. An alien woman obtained automatic us citizenship when her alien husband became naturalized.

      So, in 1907 when Elg was born on US soil, both of her parents were US citizens, therefore she was a “natural born citizen.”

      Funny thing is, when the US Supreme Court decided the case, the derivative citizen laws had changed, however, they retroactively applied them… because they had to. They had to use the law at the time of Elg’s birth… because that’s when she was born, hence she was a natural born citizen at the time of her birth and nothing could change that.

    100. capacommie · ·

      Wong Kim Ark

      U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark’s (1898) importance is that it is the first case decided by the Supreme Court that attempts to explain the meaning of “natural born citizen” under Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 of the U.S. Constitution. Natural born citizen is similar to the meaning of what a natural born subject is under Common Law in England. That is one of the reasons why the framers specifically included a grandfather clause (natural born Citizen OR a Citizen of the United States, at the time of adoption of this Constitution). The founding fathers knew that in order to be president, they had to grandfather themselves in because they were British subjects. If they didn’t, they could not be President of the U.S. The holding in U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark states that Wong Kim Ark is a native born citizen. If you look at the fact of Wong Kim Ark being born in San Francisco, CA, of Chinese parents, that holding is correct.

      In U. S. v Wong Kim Ark, the court thoroughly discussed “natural born citizen,” and in doing so, Justice Gray quoted directly from the holding in a prior Supreme Court case, Minor v. Happersett. The following passage is a quote from Minor as quoted by Justice Gray in Wong Kim Ark:

      “‘At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country, of parents [plural] who were its citizens [plural], became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further, and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction, without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case, it is not necessary to solve these doubts. It is sufficient, for everything we have now to consider, that all children, born of citizen parents within the jurisdiction, are themselves citizens.’ Minor v. Happersett (1874) 21 Wall. 162, 166-168.”

    101. capacommie · ·

      ‘One of the central tenets of the far-Left is a rejection of American exceptionalism……

      “Obama was asked by a reporter if he believes in American exceptionalism. A simple “yes” would have been appropriate from the American president. Instead, as always, Obama uses double-speak:

      ‘I believe in American exceptionalism, just as I suspect that the Brits believe in British exceptionalism and the Greeks believe in Greek exceptionalism.’ (Obama)

      “Obama, like his mentor Bill Ayers, believes that the US is a fundamentally flawed country. It’s a very popular notion of the far-Left and on college campuses, but it’s not the form of patriotic liberalism preached by FDR, JFK, and Clinton. It’s more the Leftism of Ward Churchill, and I find it repugnant.” (Texas Darlin’)

    102. Don’t cite TexasDarlin to me. An angry, deluded old woman is no authority on the meaning of Americanism. As for Wong Kim Ark, you miss the relevant quote, which was excerpted in the post I linked above, and instead quote parts of the opinion out of context. You also fail to deal with Look Tin Sing.

    103. capacommie · ·

      Wong Kim Ark had permanent domicile in the USA. Obama Sr. never did.
      Obama’s quote is what it is. And his actions in selling out America speak even louder.

    104. capacommie · ·

      If you noticed, Fiat now owns Chrysler and in effect the Europeans plundered GM Europe to form a new car company there off of American assets.
      If GM Europe was making money, then why did Obama and his globalist ilk make GM sell of that franchise?
      GM is now owned by Obama and the unions in America. They are being made to import Chinese cars. This means US workers will not have jobs. This means in equal worse venture in those billions of dollars flowing out of Europe into America from Chrysler and GM sales, will now be staying in Europe and under the complete control of the Europeans.

      Billions in balance of trade was just destroyed by Obama . Those jobs are gone and without that money coming in from the rest of the world, America is not going to have anything to try and dig itself out of the Obama abyss he has created.

      Obama and his benefactors have buried America alive to destroy her.

      The balance of trade has ended. America has nothing left but debt………..

      Uber Feuher Barack Obama has accomplished his mission and Americans have no idea what he has done. A round of hyperinflation is coming which is going to make them aghast at the reality of what they allowed Obama to do.

      The dollar has begun it’s freefall against the Euro and Yen. This was followed by the behind the scenes maneuvering of Brazil (Obama’s best commie buddy who hates white guys) and China seeking to dump the dollar for their reserves and replace it.

      This is how a traitor, a fraud, and a usurper behaves. This is what you idiots voted for; the destruction of our America.

    105. Oh they care about this ACG. The phone has been ringing off the hook from people overseas with American interests who are VERY concerned about this. Besides, if it brings a paycheck, and is not unethical, I will be a professional and cover the story. I actually have found an interest in this matter. The passions on both sides intrigue me.

      Interesting too that the head of the Republican party is now openly publicizing the lack of vetting during the campaign. People were afraid to be labeled racists.

      The judge in the case of the Occidental dismissed the subpeona saying the election was over so the point is mute. To me, that’s like saying the crime has been committed so going after the criminal is now mute. Lame. Give us some answers. I do believe we have a right to know. The public is not so stupid that we cannot see information gained being used by the other side for political gain. Just show us the records. It could seriously backfire for those seeking them

      1. “so the point is mute.” ‘Mute’ means unable to speak. The correct word is ‘moot’ which means ‘debatable’ or ‘irrelevant’.

    106. capacommie · ·

      Carol: THEY were the racists. We tried to deal straight, but whenever legitimate level critique was pointed their way, they immediately resorted to an accusation of “racism”, which meant THEY assumed deficiency based on race, whereas we assumed EQUIVALENCE AND ABILITY to withstand scrutiny as we’d have used with anyone.
      And you’re right about people caring greatly about Obama’s ineligibility. He’s destroying the country, watch your dollars decline to worthlessness and quality of life diminish, all while his powermongering proceeds.
      Internationally they ALL KNOW it’s a ticking time bomb.

    107. Capa, the domicile issue is a distinction without a difference, and it’s also plainly revealed as not relevant by Look Tin. Face it, you lose.

    108. In referring to some earlier comments about whose peddling lies and deceipt…..

      The radical liberals have had an organized 5th column in the US at least since Clinton and probably much longer.

      Their simple mission is to spread disinformation and other lies on all forms of media…to disrupt, negate, undermine normal logical/rational discourse that would ultimately lead to the facts and hence the truth about any issue.

      You may notice the patterns…as a threat increases to some socialist sacred cow, the crescendo of the hue and cry increases expotentially on all major media outlets including blogs like this.

      This is a shoutdown, its purpose is to drown out rational discourse and whip up fear and emotion.

      They know the average American may not have where-with-all to methodically sort fact from from wild, emotionalised attributions that have no basis in fact. and they will eventually succumb to believing whoever is screaming the loudest.

      RECOGNIZE THE THREAT. Bush didnt and we lost a major round, in the struggle to preserve America, to fascist/socialist propaganda.

    109. capacommie · ·

      ACG: “Natural Born Citizen” has been CODIFIED since 1758. It’s time-honored accepted nomenclature. It is a given. …in Book I, Chapter XIX, part 212, it says: “The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens.”
      Here’s the link: http://www.constitution.org/vattel/vattel_01.htm
      Otherwise, it’d be like having to define what a quarterback is at every football game.

      No way is a “natural born citizen” born of a foreigner, of a non-citizen, of a non-resident!
      Otherwise, why not Achmedinejad and an American mother with a kid who lived only part of his years here? That’s pretty close to Obama’s history.

    110. capacommie · ·

      Or how about Pol Pott and a like-minded US Citizen mom? Or how about Castro? Mugabe?
      Sorry, the legal precedents, the nomenclature, the codified terms, and the one thing you refuse to acknowledge– THAT OBAMA HIMSELF AGREES THAT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN IS JUS SOLI JUS SANGUINUS– are what prove you’re barking up all the wrong trees. You better not defy your cultmaster messiah now! Bad girl!!

    111. Look – natural born citizenship has always meant birth on American soil. Citizenship or domicile has never been relevant, although it was an open question prior to, say, 1875. No denialism or racist handwaving can fix that. Now go out there and deal with reality for once.

    112. capacommie · ·

      I guess YOU are the racist ACG since you assume some deficiency to defend based on race.
      NATIVE BORN means based on place of birth. Look at the definitions for US CITIZEN which is CLEARLY DIFFERENTIATED IN THE CONSTITUTION FROM NATURAL BORN CITIZEN. In article II s. 1 eligibility requirements are NBC OR US Citizen alive at time of ratification. “OR” do you know what the word “OR” means? It means they are not the same thing, EVER. If a US Citizen definition included NBC it would be listed in 14th amendment, which it is not.
      It’s right there in the Constitution, it’s based on logic, and again you are defying your cultmaster messiah because he is in agreement with it.

      JUS SOLI

      Don’t defy him, he has no argument with truth, nor should you.

    113. capacommie · ·

      p.s. Look Tin establishes CITIZENSHIP only which is not in disagreement with the 14th Amendment anyway, nothing new there. It certainly does not provide any ruling providing for natural born citizenship because that is codified by definition since 1758 asjus soli jus sanguinus and its definition has resisted change through multiple attempts at amending the Constitution.

    114. capacommie · ·

      What’s funny is the Oculties have NO legal basis, no facts, nothing. All they keep trying to do is obfuscate the 14th and ignore Article II (and Article I for that matter). They are the true wingnuts and obviously hate the Constitution, unlike the majority of Americans.

    115. capacommie · ·

      In the only bright spot in the Obama blabfest, CSPAN asked about Obama wanting to be appointed to the Supreme Court. Obama replied he could not get through Senate confirmation hearings…………….
      Did you get that Obama voters and the rest of blind spot America???? Obama has just admitted he can not make it through confirmation hearings for the US Supreme Court ON HIS PAST MISDEEDS.
      For all those who attacked the people stating Obama is a British subject, your Barack Obama now has confirmed there is evidence in his past which if the Congress was doing it’s job in the first place would never have allowed him into the White House.

      It is time for the Justice Department to file a criminal complaint against Barack Obama, Aaron Burr Biden and Timothy Geithner for felonious bankrupting of the United States of America, and it is time for the US Congress to have investigative hearings into just what information Barack Obama was speaking of in what Congress would find that would disqualify him from being on the Supreme Court.
      For the record, this is the same fawning body which elected him to the White House and filled with Republicans who are bowing to Obama daily in not taking him on…….so what information is there that Obama has now confessed which would change this “yep we can” Congress to “Throw the Obama bum out”.

      Complaints and Investigations, that is what this government must now initiate against Barack Hussein Obama.

    116. Wow…. Cap… it was a joke. As for the rest of your rantings, they’re just that. You can either read the cases for what they’re worth, or invent the interpretations to fit your warped little philosophy. If you persist in the latter, I have no further interest in you.

    117. capacommie · ·

      Obama: ‘WE ARE OUT OF MONEY’

      Gee, thanks Obama, since you fcking looted it all. He even cracked a smile as he disclosed that he successfully bankrupted the USA.

      This is the usurper traitor you idiots voted for. Thanks a fing lot.

      On second thought, Obama is pretty great. I’ve read all the cases that you suggested, and I guess I was completely wrong. I’m now leaving the site forever… thanks!

    118. A miracle cure! The cold light of Ames’ reason works better than Risperdal! Who knew?

    119. capacommie · ·

      Actually, the imposter above with the strike-throughs proves my point.
      Bots have nothing but obfuscation of the 14th.

      R 985 – Stealth Legislation to Protect Obama from Providing his Birth Certificate

      This bill is “stealth legislation” and will protect Obama from disclosing his ties to fraudulent real estate transactions, providing his birth certificate to prove he meets the citizenship requirements for office of the President as stated in the Constitution, and if passed, will protect others in his administration from disclosure of concealed transactions between government and businesses such as House Speaker Pelosi’s dealings with her husbands interest in Dole Foods and off-shore labor activities. If this stealth legislation continues to be passed virtually unnoticed, it won’t be long before any of the State courts would be rendered useless against getting information from agencies having records involving the president, his administration, Congress, or their staff.

      This is some serious stuff – please call, write, e-mail, fax to stop this!

    120. And once again we see how, in times of great change, a few insecure people latch on to the strangest delusions in the hope that they will provide a little bit of stability in their lives.

      An intriguing psychological mechanism, to be sure, although rather annoying in the long run.

    121. Schvenzlerman · ·

      Anyone who questions the qualification of Obama to be President should be nabbed under the Patriot Act as a domestic terrorist and imprisoned with the key thrown away. Obama has the power now and there is no room for dissent. Obama will crush anyone who opposes him. You will see.

    122. Well said Lanfranc! And Schv…eh… I don’t think he’ll crush anyone… in fact, I don’t think he cares about these people at all. I *DO* think it’s a shocking reversal from the “SUPPORT THE PRESIDENT ALL THE TIME” rhetoric of the right until about four months ago…

    123. Obama is evil. He is mentioned as evil in the scriptures of 7 major religions.
      1. Obamam (or Mamon as reefered in the old testiment) is a supporter (and possibly a reciprieant) of psychiatry.
      2. Modern biological psychiatry is a materialistic religion masquerading as a science.
      3. Psychiatrists are evil. 100% pure evil. Psychiatrists have been behind history’s worst human rights atrocities including 9/11, Apartheid, all genocide, and the Columbine shootings.
      4. Obama entered into a tacit arrangement with a co-conspiratorial segment of the public whereby, if they were to contribute sufficient votes to his candidacy, Obama agreed to become their president.
      5. Several prominent psychiatrists are the leaders of the conspiracy to conciel Obama’s true birth circumstances from the public. They claim to be hiding behind the “Physician’s Oath” in comitting this treason.

      1. JSmith – Are you a scientologist by any chance?? They’re the ones that usually have a hate-on for psychology.

        If you are, then are you clear? What’s your OT level? Have you met Xenu??

        1. Having personally met Xenu, I can tell you that he’s kind of a dick.

        2. Not even the Scientologists are this crazy.

    124. It’s all true. Xenu told me so.

    125. Geez ACG….I check back in after two days and see the comments by JSmith and Schvenzlerman……I don’t know what to say….


    126. Crystal · ·

      Taitz FAILED to reply to Berg’s suit. She couldn’t even accomplish the simplest act on her own behalf.

    127. […] month, birther “attorney” Orly Taitz was sued by both a former comrade, and her ideological fellow-traveler, 9/11 “truther” […]

    128. THANK YOU, Crystal! It’s now a new post thanks to you!

    129. […] you are short on entertainment, might I recommend visiting ACG’s March post on crazy Orly Taitz’s birther saga. This week some vigilant voices from that end of the spectrum resurrected the comment thread, and […]

    130. thisoldhippie · ·

      I had to respond to these questions:
      1. Orly Taitz is a dentist, so she is entitled to call herself doctor. You can stop using the quotes now. (Or do you refer to your own dentist as “Mr.” or “Ms.”?)

      While this may be true – I still wouldn’t undergo dental care from her.

      2. Since Obama traveled to Pakistan at a time when holders of US passports could not do so, under what claimed nationality did he travel there?

      It has been debunked time and again that there was no travel ban for US citizens – there was a travel advisory. Anyone could have traveled to Pakistan. Another lie being passed around.

      3. Forget the “birth” issue for a moment – what about the adoption issue? Adopted by his stepfather Lolo Soetoro of Indonesia, and given the name “Barry Soetoro”, he became a citizen of Indonesia which did not permit dual status, therefore, his US citizenship was renounced. When and where did he apply to have his US Citizenship restored? If he did, wouldn’t his status therefore be naturalized, not natural-born?

      There is no evidence of an adoption – only his name listed as Soetoro on an old school document. I know many children who use their step parent’s name without being formally adopted. Further, US law does not allow for a parent to give up the citizenship of a minor child.

      4. Why did he lie on his Illinois bar exam when he said he had never been known by any other name?

      Are you referring to the Indonesian school record? Probably because he was never known by another name as an adult or even after he returned to the states.

      And Carol – when you called the hospitals and they wouldn’t acknowledge whether President Obama was born there or not it is because of our HIPAA laws. They cannot afirm or deny anyone having been a patient in their facility.

      1. Welp, the birfers have found the site at its new address. We now know we’ve really truly arrived.

        1. thisoldhippie · ·

          Please don’t think I am a birther! I was responding to previous questions posted by one of “those people.” I got the link to your site from obamaconspiracy.org

          1. Oh crap! I’m so sorry! This is what happens when I try to reply to comments in class. Sorry, thisoldhippie, forgive me for not thinking through the context, and I hope you stick around!

            1. thisoldhippie · ·

              Most definitely. Anyone who has the same opinion of Orly Taitz as I do, is considered a friend!

    131. N. Piendel · ·

      Orly is a real lawyer and a talented person. She has enough courage to stand up for the truth. She is not at all interested in “her 15 minutes of fame”. She is a happy exception that does credit to the legal profession. May God help her. (By the way, I am not a believer or member of any political group).

    132. ACG – the fact that you worked so hard to debunk Ms. Taitz and the various arguments concerning POTUS’s “eligibility”, gives even more credence to their arguments. You have succeeded in making me wonder if there really is something to all this. I’m not a member of the “tinfoil hat crowd” but I do subscribe to the notion that attacking the messenger and not the message is the strategy of those who cannot argue against the facts. Indeed, I don’t know what the facts are, but I’d like to see some genuine discussion of these issues. So the question is, Was POTUS born in the 50th state in 1961? I thought he was when I voted for him…now Im not so sure.

      1. But Taitz doesn’t have any facts, only a wierd personality cult nourished by a steady stream of insane ramblings. So the messenger is all there is…

      2. qwertyman · ·

        Wait, you’re saying that because somebody went point by point to show how somebody’s accusation was false, that makes you think it’s more likely that the accusation is true?

        Gee, you really went to a lot of effort to explain that Chicago is not the capital of the US, that gives more credence to the argument that Chicago IS the capital!

    133. […] But, it was worth a try.  The “soldier standing” trick was clever in 1973, when it made a point and, despite failing, apparently made the Justices seriously stop & think about the consequences of the Vietnam War. Job well done, I’d say. You can’t say the same for Orly. Orly Taitz, on the other hand, is a racist troll, exploiting a soldier’s naivete to feed her delusions of grandeur. For God’s sake, she’s not even admitted to the bar in the case’s jurisdiction (remember?)! […]

    134. Pilot66 · ·

      Excuse me for interrupting …but, could we just see the birth cirtificate, please?

    135. Pilot66 · ·

      Whoops …sorry for the previous typo:

      1. Oneiroi · ·

        No, I need a picture of Obama holding his gift certificate in one hand, with a daily Hawaiian paper in the other (date clearly printed), with a Supreme Court Justice next to him with a notary stamp in one hand and a bible in the other.

        1. Oneiroi · ·

          Damn, birth certificate. Not gift!


    136. Well looks like she is going to be heard dispite what you think.More power to her if she can expose this con man we now have as President.

      1. Oneiroi · ·

        Please come back and tell us how that went for you. We’re already what, 7 months in, come back in 7 months!

        1. I’ve been seeing “any day now. He’ll be exposed and removed any day now……” since before he took office.

          So far, nobody’s come up with any credible evidence to back up their claims though. Just the same tired old myths.

      2. Oneiroi · ·

        BTW, it’s conbaby, he’s been making up birth certificates since then.

    137. You dimwit, here is the information:

      Taitz, Orly Active 223433 Mission Viejo December 2002
      [Admitted to BAR]

      Orly Taitz – #223433
      Current Status: Active

      This member is active and may practice law in California.

      See below for more details.


      1. Hey, it’s Philip Berg’s former head cheerleader turned Orly Cavity Creep!!

        How many months have you been claiming to have inside information that would destroy Obama? For that matter, remember all the horrible things you said about Dr. Orly before your falling out with Berg??

        *chuckle* Still at it I see

    138. Roland Stiles · ·

      I just wish someone would produce the evidence the birthers are asking for so we can shut these guys up. Seems fairly simple. I am getting concerned about all the unanswered questions. These have to be answered or Obamas presidency will be plagued with them for the next 3 years.

      1. Oneiroi · ·

        But it hasn’t been plagued. No one important cares. In those next 3 years, while this small group freaks out, Obama will still be president.

        There will always be conspiracy theorists, who despite any evidence given, will still see a conspiracy.

      2. Exactly, why doesn’t Obama produce the evidence?

        I can tell you that this will only GROW in size, not shrink. The additive effect of time + suspicious developments such as REVOKING Cook’s deployment orders only cause more and more people to doubt Obama’s legitimacy.

        That is not a positive for Obama.

        1. Oneiroi · ·

          He has.

          There’s been a confirmed birth certificate, and two local papers reporting his birth in Hawaii.

          But some want to cling to conspiracy theories and won’t believe the documents, they (you) can’t be helped.

        2. I think a very good reason why he doesn’t just “produce the evidence” – beside the fact that despite not being obliged to do so, he already has produced evidence that any non-crackpot individual would consider quite sufficient – is that experience shows that the birther’s grasp of reality is so limited that nothing anyone could conceivably do would be sufficient to convince them that they’re wrong. Giving in to their absurd demands accomplishes only two things, both of them bad: It would further reinforce their belief that they’re actually on to something, and it would give them a degree of legitimacy.

          Just to put the whole thing in perspective: Obama was elected with a 52.9% majority and currently enjoys an approval rating of around 60%. By comparison, for all their talk of “we the people” and all that, the birther movement is so small that you’d need infinitesmal numbers to describe it. Why should he dignify them with any sort of attention whatsoever?

    139. Victor Whitlock · ·

      This column reminds me of that scene in the Wizard of Oz when the Wizard says, “pay no attention to that man behind the curtain”..
      The Bar is not the same as the ABA. The fact that she’s not a member of the ABA is probably good in that she doesn’t hold the same prejudices as the memebers of the ABA.
      I want to know why Obama has spent millions to keep all public records sealed that would end the discussion once and for all.
      I also would like to know why the Senate vetted McCain on the very same issue because he was born in the Canal zone, but Obama was never given the same scrutiny.
      Finally, this is NOT a trivial requirement of the Constitution, to to anyone who says so, I say he dorh protest too much.

    140. Steve1776 · ·

      Drudge is now reporting (via crackpot tinhat WorldNetsDaily) that Cook’s orders have been revoked. Where does this leave us?

      This is what “Dr” Orly has to say in the article: “We won! We won before we even arrived. It means that the military has nothing to show for Obama. It means that the military has directly responded by saying Obama is illegitimate – and they cannot fight it. Therefore, they are revoking the order!”

      Her erroneous conclusions notwithstanding, it still seems to be an interesting revocation. Maybe they’re just getting ready to ship Cook to Ft. Leavenworth?

      1. Yes, where does that leave us? You are claiming that her conclusions are erroneous, but what other conclusions are there? A solider gets an order to deploy, he refuses because Obama is not legitimate, and then the next day his deployment orders are revoked?! With no comment?

        There is no indication that they are charging him with a crime let alone “shipping him to Ft. Leavenworth”.

        That doesn’t raise any red flags with you? Try opening your mind a bit. Does this order revocation prove/disprove anything? No.

        Is it suspicious? Yes.

      2. Why should they trust his judgement now? If he truly believes he doesn’t need to follow President Obama’s orders, he might not follow his superiors’ orders, since they work for the President.

    141. bullwhacker · ·

      Carol May, if I were not married I’d be stalking you. You’re one cool cucumber. An honest (real) journalist. Meaning you’re the last one standing.

    142. bullwhacker · ·

      Steve1776 & Jojo, here’s the latest on Maj. Cook. Obama avoids discovery, for now, and got Cook fired from his civilian job, raizing some interesting criminal issues, i.e. the Whistleblowers Act.


    143. bullwhacker · ·

      Dang, can’t believe I’ve read the whole thing, all comments. First impression (re: ACG vs. Taitz)ACG has that Palin/Parker/Dowd thingy goin on. Meow!

    144. bullwhacker · ·

      Well, in the interest of keeping this thing alive (March 13 thru July 16, WOW!) I’ve decided to weigh-in with my pick for best post, and boy will this be controversial, cause I’ve chosen the biggest “wing nut” of all. Er, thats a compliment. And the winner is, “capacommie” at May 22, 2009 @ 6:03 AM. Runner-up is Carol May on May 21, 2009 @5:17PM. Carol lays waste to ACG’s “180 birther lie” meme.

    145. bullwhacker · ·


    146. bullwhacker · ·

      Hey lanfranc, @ July 15 @5:31PM, I just read your post. You said,in part, “By comparison, for all their talk of “we the people” and all that, the birther movement is so small that you’d need infinitesmal numbers to describe it. Why should he dignify them with any sort of attention whatsoever?” Lanfranc, plagiarism is a serious offense. You need to fess-up and apologize for quoting King George to his generals at the start of the revolution.

    147. bullwhacker · ·

      Guess I’m the only one left without a day job. Er, think I’ll check some other sites, or maybe switch jammies.

    148. Should we be surprised if a military officer who unreasonably and foolishly questions his commander-in-chief’s legitimacy suddenly finds himself without orders? Maj. Cook’s hatred of America is truly astonishing.

      And should we be surprised, too, if his 15 minutes of fame cause his civilian employer to take a second look at his qualifications? No.

    149. I just finished reading the posts above. I don’t belong to any groups, right or left but this issue has captured my attention and here is why. I just became employed by the State of California as part of my acceptance they required me to produce a original birth certificate.

      What is the problem? It’s so easily solved and does not warrant this extensive debate. We all have to provide original birth certificate to enroll our kids at school or summer camp. Please explain to me why the president should be a special case?

      In my opinion, I suppose I would do the same thing if I was trying to hide something….

      1. Oneiroi · ·

        How many times do I need to post this here:


        You’re right, it doesn’t need extensive debate, so stop imagining one out of nothing.



        I don’t know why I try, can’t reason with conspiracy theorists who have made up their mind it’s all fake.

    150. bullwhacker · ·

      ACG, you say, “Maj. Cook’s hatred of America is truly astonishing.” Now, I’ve read all comments and I’m struck by your ability to make some sense here and there, but for the most part sound totally bitchy. Could you please clarify or support the statement I’ve quoted herin. Where in the hell did you get “Maj. Cook’s hatred of America” from?

    151. idioteraser · ·

      You cannot produce an original certificate. You have a certified copy. The original certificate filed by the hospital to the Department of Health in each state or by whatever relevant agency is kept in the state records vault and no one can remove it.

      You get a copy and every few years the appereance of said copy and what data is on it changes. Hence a Hawaiian birth certificate from 1961 is quite different not only in apperance but content from one produced upon request in say 1986.

      Real birth certificates do not have the baby’s footprints nor fingerprints. Those are a novelty item and never filed with the goverment. The hospital produces them in order to get money. They are thrown out after a month if the parents don’t buy them. This is why babies that are found abandoned or left for dead etc are nearly impossible to trace to their parents or other family members. Also why the goverment doesn’t have records of everyone’s fingerprints because if they had them on the birth certificate it would be an easy matter to add them to an electronic database so if a Jane or Jim Doe turned up in a morque it would be a simple matter to find out who they are if their fingers are intact. Instead a lot of dead bodies are never identified.

      Obama has shown his certified copy. The state of Hawaii and people born in Hawaii who requested their birth certificate within the past few years confirmed that is what Obama showed. The damn state goverment which is run by Republicans and who supported McCain confirmed he was born in Hawaii.

      1. Oneiroi · ·

        Right, and even the original one has been confirmed:

        State health director Dr. Chiyome Fukino has “personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.”

    152. Birfers, generally, including all of them posting here, will sadly fail to bring value to the world even through the decomposition of their respective biomass.

      1. BEST. INSULT. EVER.

    153. TheRealThunderMonkey · ·

      Conspiracy theorists are incapable of managing their own lives so they come up with theories to displace any responsibility that they are to share as contributing members of society.

    154. disbarthebirferlawyers · ·

      Sad, deluded birfoons. Your leader is an idiot. She has a degree from an online correspondence law school that is not accredited by the ABA and she has just about ZERO experience litigating in any court…I would not hire her to defend me on a parking ticket if she were the last lawyer on earth. All of this frivolous, baseless cases will be dismissed. Move on already.

      1. Our”leader(s)” are those Founders who put together the U.S. Constitution
        We take our lead from them

    155. bullwhacker · ·

      TheRealThunderMonkey says,”Conspiracy theorists are incapable of managing their own lives so they come up with theories to displace any responsibility that they are to share as contributing members of society.”

      I agree, so lets debunk this “Bush lied, people died,” and “Cheney did it for oil crap.” Hell yes!

      Idioteraser, my birth certificate has foot and fingerprints.

      SRS says, “Birfers, generally, including all of them posting here, will sadly fail to bring value to the world even through the decomposition of their respective biomass.”

      SRS must be our new science CZAR. Eugenics! Who who!

      To which our masterbater, er, master of debate ACG responds,”BEST.INSULT.EVER! Thats all this was ever about, right? Insults. Nice work comrades! Here’s a clue, Alinskys rule #12. Go ahead, I can take it.

    156. disbarthebirferlawyers · ·

      bullwhacker, there is something called a “learning curve” that you and the rest of the birfers are clearly impervious to…very sad. How many times must the football be pulled away before you learn to stop running at full speed attempting to kick it? So, I am guessing Obama will be removed any day now? THIS next case by Orly will be THE ONE? *yawn*

    157. Robert Schell, Esq. · ·

      Ms. Tazis apparently has been admitted to the STate Bar of California. Which info you can find by searching http://www.calbar.org and using the member search option. See her info at: http://members.calbar.ca.gov/search/member_detail.aspx?x=223433
      So that means she can practice in California and in any Federal Court that she applies to represent someone in.

      1. Noted as to Ca. But I was under the impression that fed court admission turns upon one’s admission to the bar, in general. Her correspondence degree is less a right to seek admission generally, but a limited exception to her inadmissibility. If fed courts could admit her on their discretion, the exception would kind of swallow the rule

    158. bullwhacker · ·

      Disbarthebirferlawyers, I apologize. I missed your 6:09 post. Borrowing your learning curve point at your 6:26 comment. I’ll see your 6:09 Orly Taitz shortcomings and raize you your dear leader Barack Obama’s short comings, to wit:

      1. Occidental College records — Not released
      2. Columbia College records — Not released
      3. Columbia Thesis paper — “not available”
      4. Harvard College records — Not released
      5. Selective Service Registration — Not released
      6. Medical records — Not released
      7. Illinois State Senate schedule — “not available”
      8. Law practice client list — Not released
      9. Certified Copy of original Birth certificate — Not released
      10. Embossed, signed paper Certification of Live Birth — Not released
      11. Harvard Law Review articles published — None
      12. University of Chicago scholarly articles — None

      As a footnote: Obama’s selective service registration (#5) was not released, but obtained by other means and found a forgery.

      As for running with the football, anytime my friend. At 58 I can still put it up your ass (clothesline)at 45 yards.

    159. idioteraser · ·

      ” Certified Copy of original Birth certificate — Not released”

      Once again in every single state that is a state document that cannot be taken out of the Department of Health’s vault. In several states the public cannot view records until a certain period of time has passed in Hawaii it is 75 years and state certified genealogists are the only ones allowed to view them for research purposes prior to the 75 year period expiring as well as certified state health workers. No one can have their original birth certificate released. No one not the president, not the Supreme Court no one can.

      “Selective Service Registration — Not released”

      This was confirmed as being released. It was verified that he had registered and it wasn’t a fake. Stop repeating debunked garbage.

      Once again real birth certificates do not have the footprints and finger/hand prints of the infant. That is a novelty certificate that is not valid in the court system nor will the federal goverment accept it as proof of identity when you go to get a passport.

      Does the word novelty not register in the cranium of the birthers?

    160. bullwhacker · ·

      And further more, lets say we birfers concede #9 in my 6:57 above. Whats up with the rest of em? Huh! Answer me you fucking worms!

      1. So when people show you facts, you call them names? Real classy (NOT).

    161. idioteraser · ·

      Oh as for his college records the birthers never seem to have bothered to learn about privacy laws that came in place in the 1970s that prohibit the release of student records to the media and other non qualified people.

      http://www.oxy.edu/x7992.xml Barack Obama attended Occidental College from fall 1979 through spring 1981 and then transferred to Columbia University in New York. He is not a graduate of Occidental; however, the Occidental College Alumni Association bylaws state that anyone who completes at least eight courses of undergraduate work (or a year of graduate studies) is eligible for alumni status when their class graduates. The 1974 federal Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (34 CFR Part 99) protects the privacy of student education records. We, therefore, cannot disclose students’ classes, grade point averages, majors or other such information.

      Columbia Thesis paper — “not available”
      How could they make available something there is no proof Obama wrote and wasn’t required to write at the time nor would it have been stored. It wasn’t a thesis it was a senior paper like a term paper not kept in records.

      “Embossed, signed paper Certification of Live Birth — Not released

      Once again you cannot release something that doesnt’ exist due to your misunderstandings of real things.

      Amazing how when one bothers to fact check the birthers claims they are found to be nothing but misunderstandings, out right lies, crap that would cause UFO nuts to disown their own members if they put it forward to the public.

    162. bullwhacker · ·

      Idioteraser, bullshit! Once again, my birth certificate has foot and fingerprints. You’re a fraud. Obamas draft registration is bogus.

      1. I just went in and looked at my birth certificate — no foot or fingerprints — and I was born in an Air Force hospital. You, bullwhacker, are certifiable.

        1. BTW, my birth certificate isn’t an original because the state keeps those!

    163. bullwhacker · ·

      Idioteraser, Obama can authorize the release of anything he wants pertaining to his life. Where the hell do you think bullwhacher comes from? Come on, put something over the plate. Sorry, don’t mean to infer anything.

    164. idioteraser · ·

      Novelty. The damn hospitals and the department of the tresaury will you tell real certifified birth certificates do not have fingerprints or footprints on them.

      There are several goverment websites where you can see the birth certificates they hand out. Not a single damn one has footprints or fingerprints on them. You try to take that to get a passport and you would either be laughed at or told to get your real certified one and not a novelty one sold to your parents as a souvernier by the hospital.

      http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/birth11-03final-ACC.pdf is the one filed with the goverment by the hospital.

      http://www.doh.state.fl.us/planning_eval/vital_statistics/COMMEMBIRTHSCAN.pdf is a Florida commerentive birth certificate that costs more. Numerous states no longer offer these and Florida doesn’t allow birth certificates to be public records until 100 years have passed from the date of issuance.

      I have seen my grandparents birth certificates they didn’t have the footprints and handprints either and they were basically the size of a postcard and guess what these certificate copies were decades old.

    165. bullwhacker · ·

      Sooo, ACG, have not heard from ya for a while. Perhaps you can esplain for me today’s revelation that the house version of the helth care bill does indeed contain explicit language making private insurance “Illegal” once a current insured drops or loses it? I say again, “illegal.” Dear leader has promised the opposite for weeks. Not withstanding his citizen status, are you down with that?

    166. idioteraser · ·

      “Obama can authorize the release of anything he wants pertaining to his life. ”

      Dead wrong he cannot do it since it would violate numerous federal laws as well as state laws. He would get impeached for it.

      1. Sorry your comment got held for moderation, Idioteraser. I’m so glad to have you here!

        As for you, bullwhacker, some of us just graduated from actual ABA-accredited law schools, and so are studying for the bar, with the prospect of being admitted to practice in more than one state. Remarkable! I’m already ahead of Orly Taitz in terms of life accomplishments. Then again, so are most rocks.

    167. bullwhacker · ·

      Capacommie, this bullwhacker, over.

    168. bullwhacker · ·

      ACG at 7:26 PM, WHAT? What the heck is that? Oh I get it. I’m a member of the unwashed masses. Its the elitist argument. You know jack about me and yet you pull the trigger on the elitist argument. But, but, thats all statists know. Its all up to the statists now. Nothing to see here, move along.

      So ACG, here’s the deal. It aint about Orly Taitz, its about your guy, the usurper.

    169. bullwhacker · ·

      Idioteraser, I say,“Obama can authorize the release of anything he wants pertaining to his life.” and you say, “Dead wrong he cannot do it since it would violate numerous federal laws as well as state laws. He would get impeached for it.”

      You have got to be kidding me. Its time to I.D. you people. I’m dealing with 5th graders. More like children of the damned.

    170. bullwhacker · ·

      I offer a moment of pause and reflection. Sincerely, I’m enjoying the hell out of this. That is because I figured out, about 85 posting earlier, that you believers, really do get it, that Obama is not natural born, but it is your duty to obey. I can respect that. Not really. But the point stands. You have no other choice. I can respect that. No, not really.

    171. idioteraser · ·

      It’s called federal law. The president cannot release records that are sealed by federal law. Every judge will tell you this unless there is a procedure in the relevant laws that allows them to be unsealed as well as by whom the president cannot do jack about their being sealed. Often these laws have a time period. Often times it’s about the average human life span or twenty five years.

      It’s called federal privacy laws. Bother to read them and you will see they cannot be released to the public.

    172. idioteraser · ·

      Obama is natural born as defined by the law and numerous schloars and lawyers will tell you that. Any claim to the contrary is based on ignorance and stupidity hence why the lawsuits keeping getting tossed out and you cannot name who is defending Obama. Give you a hint no one is defending him except the rampant stupidity of the birther arguments.

    173. bullwhacker · ·

      Sooo, ACG, about that illegal private insurance thing. Care to weigh-in? You friggin phoney. You fraud.

      1. Ooh, good ‘ol birfers and their dependable reductio-ad-shrieking. Run along now – don’t you have a holocaust or a moon landing to deny, or something?

        1. How do you put up with these birther nuts, ACG? If you offer facts or don’t answer their posts fast enough, they go ballistic and call names. It’s sad to live in a nation where so many people are so very uninformed.

    174. bullwhacker · ·

      Idioteraser, you’re not even in the game. Blowin smoke out your ass. Come on “believers,” you gotta have some one who’s got info here. This has got to be embarassing for you. I have noticed you did not take the Alinsky rule bait. Congrats.

    175. bullwhacker · ·

      ACG, you sayin the moon landing was real? Dang!

    176. bullwhacker · ·

      Check it out, I say, “You know jack about me and yet you pull the trigger on the elitist argument. But, but, thats all statists know. Its all up to the statists now. Nothing to see here, move along.”

      And how does ACG respond? here it is: “Ooh, good ‘ol birfers and their dependable reductio-ad-shrieking. Run along now – don’t you have a holocaust or a moon landing to deny, or something.”

      Bingo! Move along.

    177. bullwhacker · ·

      Speaking of move along, I got a flank steak I gotta grill. Funny, I get to throw someone’s ass on the grill after all. Even if its a methane, fart producing environmental polluting friggin ex-cow, I can take satisfaction in knowing I’m contributing to global cooling. See, even a conservative S.O.B. like me can contribute to the cause. Don’t give up.

    178. idioteraser · ·

      “about that illegal private insurance thing. Care to weigh-in? You friggin phoney. You fraud.”

      Why should someone weigh in on your lies about what is in the various bills which Obama didn’t create?

    179. TheRealThunderMonkey · ·


      He who barks the loudest, has the least to say.

      1. Bravo!

    180. bullwhacker · ·

      Idioteraser, here’s Kristy Watanabe, staff member of Obama’s purported hospital of birth regarding all those Federal laws you say prohibit the release of his records, “Despite numerous requests last week for the hospital to verify the correspondence, Kapi’olani spokeswoman Kristy Watanabe would only say: “Federal law does not permit us to provide any more details concerning information [about Obama’s birth] without authorization from Mr. Obama.”

      Like I said, Idioterasor, Obama can authorize release of any part of his life’s story he desires.

    181. bullwhacker · ·

      The Real Thunder Monkey @ 8:58 PM says, “He who barks the loudest, has the least to say.” Thats it. You weighed in at 5:57 and 6 hours later thats all you’ve got? I stand before you head bowed, and thinking, “what a pussy.”

    182. idioteraser · ·

      Fascinating that numerous other places say they cannot release info even if Mr. Obama says they can.

      What information is protected?

      HIPAA defines protected health information (PHI) as individually identifiable health information held or disclosed by a covered entity. PHI is widely inclusive. It can include a patient’s name, Social Security number or medical record number; specific dates such as birth, admission, discharge or death; or any other information that may be used to identify a patient. This may include information about past, present or future physical or mental conditions, the provision of health care to an individual, or the past, present or future payment for the provision of health care. Simply removing the patient’s name is not enough to protect the information, and “de-identification” is an onerous task that most physician practices will not undertake.

      Also even if he did that doesn’t mean to any one that asks. It’s meant for other doctors and legally allowed groups identities. Private citizens wouldn’t be allowed the info.

    183. bullwhacker · ·

      So ACG, after 3 attempts, I’ll venture a 4th. Have you formulated a response to obama’s blatant lie regarding today’s news that the house helth care bill includes explicit language making private health coverage “illegal” for all Americans, including any who allow their current coverage to lapse or forfeit? If not, you’re a fraud and a hypocrit. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

    184. TheRealThunderMonkey · ·

      “What a pussy?” ??!??
      “What a pussy?” ??!??

      Wow, you’re clearly a deep thinker. In order for you to deliver such a grade-school insult, you must have absolutely nothing substantive to say. I said nothing all this time, because I was curious if you really wanted a debate.

      You don’t care what anyone says. You’re not interested in a spirited debate. You can’t fix stupid and there’s nothing I or anyone can say to at least find some common ground.

      You just want to hate and feel angry about something.

      You, Mr. Bullwhack, are nothing more than a mere, sad, pathetic little bully.

    185. When your wrong you’re wrong, and “birthers” your wrong. Birthers, why not do a Sarah Palin, and quit while you have a base?

    186. bullwhacker · ·

      Idioteraser, enough already. As I’ve said, you’re full of shit. Its HIPPA. Its been in effect for 10-15 years, and after 40 years my wife can cite chapter and verse. Any suggestion that any law prohibits Obama from authorizing the release of any portion of his records is pure bullshit. Now go fucking away.

      1. Say you want to get your Nebraska birth certificate, here’s what you’d do, and notice you only get a copy not an original. In addition, you must submit photo ID:

        Event: Birth

        Cost of copy: $12.00

        Vital Records
        1033 O Street, Suite 130
        P.O. Box 95065
        Lincoln, NE 68509-5065

        Remarks: State office has records since late 1904. If birth occurred before then, write the State office for information. Personal check or money order should be made payable to Vital Records. To verify current fees, the telephone number is (402) 471-2871. This is a recorded message. Information on how to obtain certified copies is also available via the Nebraska Department of Health and Human Services, Office of Vital Records website..

        All requests must include a photocopy of the requestor’s valid government issued photo identification.

        Here’s the link to the site (CDC) for all the states (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/w2w.htm). Maybe you can get a real copy of your birthd certificate there instead of the novelty one you have now!

    187. idioteraser · ·

      That is only one privacy law. Bother to do some research because those universities will tell you they cannot release his records or any students records.

      The same goes for his birth certificate. The public is not allowed to view birth certificates in Hawaii and other states. Numerous state goverments will flat out tell you that the President nor anyone else can request be made available for public viewing till a certain time passes. In the case of Hawaii it is 75 years in Florida it is 100 years.

      A lot of you stupid birthers swore Obama wasn’t born in Hawaii because no hospital would confirm his birth and didn’t seem to know that privacy laws prevented that. And yes privacy laws regarding hospitals prevent someone from having their medical records be public. John McCain couldn’t do so.

    188. idioteraser · ·

      HIPPA privacy rule took effect in 2003 nimrod. So no your lie has been exposed.

    189. bullwhacker · ·

      TheRealThunderMonkey, whoaa, whoaa, whoa! You say, “You don’t care what anyone says. You’re not interested in a spirited debate. You can’t fix stupid and there’s nothing I or anyone can say to at least find some common ground.”

      OK, assuming you are correct, what would you like to debate? And I guarantee you I will be civil. No shit.

    190. bullwhacker · ·

      Hey Idioteraser,you say at 11:37PM I’m a nimrod. In fact you say, “HIPPA privacy rule took effect in 2003 nimrod. So no your lie has been exposed.

      Oh contrare, I claimed 10-15 years, here’s what I’m talkin about, ‘The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA) Privacy Rule” That’s 14 friggin years. Now go away.

      1. catsy83 · ·

        Statement 1: HIPAA has been passed in 1996. The Privacy Rule (PR) regarding private health information came into effect in 2003.

        Statement 2: Under the PR, private health information of patients may not be released to third parties unless it’s in relation to the provision of medical care (e.g. dr. sending info to insurance to claim payment). The only exception is if disclosure is required by law (e.g. gun-shot wound reporting laws).
        Private health information MUST be released to the patient IF requested. (The if being the operative word).

        Conclusion: Both you, bullwhacker, and idioteraser got it wrong in part. As for why I got it right – one of my first real world assignments as a law student was to write a 15-page memo summarizing HIPAA and its implication on people having HIV/AIDs.

    191. bullwhacker · ·

      Jeezzz, I gotta believe that some like minded souls are out there enjoying this. With every passing hour I feel like Conan the Barbarian. Somebody please throw me some meat. Idioteraser, its past your bedtime.

    192. bullwhacker · ·

      TheRealThunderMonkey, are you out there. My offer still stands. I’ll be gentle. I’m very curious about your moniker.

    193. bullwhacker · ·

      Breaker Breaker, capacommie, are you out there, this is bullwhacker, over.

    194. bullwhacker · ·

      Alright, alright, I have a confession to make. I’m an old fart and its past MY BEDTIME. So I bid you ado till tomorrow. Its been fun. Sincerely!

    195. jaime olander · ·

      I’m a lawyer. So is she. Unfortunately, in a free country, we have to put up with a lot of people who would be lying in a ditch with a bullet in the head in Putin’s Russia, or beaten to death in Iran or China.

      Yes, California allows unaccredited “law schools” to add fresh meat to the existing mass of lawyers in California. Thus Gloria Allred, Mark Garagos, etc.

      Personally, I think it’s beneficial. We need a lot of wackos of all stripes to get their ugly mugs on TV for all to see. God forbid that each and every wingnut wackjob be deprived of their First Amendment rights. America rules.

    196. bullwhacker · ·

      Gooooood mornin believers and skeptics. First I’d like to offer my sincere apologies to both camps in this discussion for having taken the bait at 6:22PM yesterday, and stooped to a level of discourse that was not called for. I encourage anyone else without a day job to read all comments. Mine begin at July 16, 12:44PM

    197. bullwhacker · ·

      Good strategy, just ignore me. So I’m sweeping the web for todays news and may have decided to come over to the dark side, the believer side. Since I know Obama is from Mombassa, and so do you. We may as well join forces and do everything in our power to keep Joe Biden out of the Oval office. He would only bankrupt us faster than Obama.

    198. bullwhacker · ·

      Er, make that Joe Isuzu-rainmain Biden. Actually, I just lifted that from a guy named Sheiff over at Redstate. If you think we should bankrupt our country to save it from bankruptcy, raise your hands.

      1. I’m sorry you’re not getting as much whiny attention as you’d like. But I have neither the time nor the patience to deal with those whose core beliefs depend upon a simple denial of reality. So this is your last reply from me at least.

        President Obama was thoroughly vetted by the voters and government actors. Indeed, Hawaiian officials have specifically satisfied any reasonable burden of proof regarding Obama’s citizenship. So the burden is yours. Present hard, definite proof of Obama’s non citizenship, or STFU, provided that neither the fact that you haven’t personally seen the document, nor the non production of a “long form” document, satisfy your burden.

        1. bullwhacker · ·

          Whoaa, ACG. Little testy today. Like the once famous news editor once said, “she’s got spunk.” I like that. Actually, I thought I’d taken a different turn today. You had no comment yesterday about the “illegal” insurance question so I tried to change it to Biden today. If you check my posting to you there aint that much about Obama’s birth. Trust me when I say I know aint changin your mind on it. If fact, I’m not lookin to change your mind about anything. Just asking you to “weigh-in” (4 times re: “illegal” private insurance) with an opinion. Kinda related to Obama’s honesty which I suppose might give fodder to them birthers you keep denigratin. Your home page refers to 50% politics I believe. If you had discussed it I would be able to say I will miss you.

    199. […] to a post in the blog, A Candid World, Taitz attended an online lawy school and her degree and license only permits her to practice law […]

    200. disbarthebirferlawyers · ·

      “Disbarthebirferlawyers, I apologize. I missed your 6:09 post. Borrowing your learning curve point at your 6:26 comment. I’ll see your 6:09 Orly Taitz shortcomings and raize you your dear leader Barack Obama’s short comings, to wit”

      Yup, an my guy is President, your girl is on her way to being disbarred. I am confident that I bet on a winner, and you have hitched your star to a loser…good luck with that. Trusting Orly to win any of these cases is like trusting your dermatologist to do your open heart surgery…messy results on that kinda thing.

      1. bullwhacker · ·

        I give it about 30 days and you’re gonna be scramblin to get that Obama sticker off your Prius bumper before everyone on your street trashes it, and you. This new meme, “meant to stabilize, not stimulate,” and fewer people are searching under “economic depression” crap aint sellin. Orly will do just fine without me. Why don’t you show the rest of the folks out there the other half of my post you cited above? You know, the actual Obama shortcomings? You guys thrive on censorship, right?

    201. Hey Bullwhacker(a telling monicker)Read this then shut up. read

      1. bullwhacker · ·

        Just read your link Fred. Interesting how the left offers-up these articles by like minded people whose argument runs counter to their very evidence they cite. Read it again Fred and pay particular attention to the reader comments. They’re far more inciteful. Here’s the deal. What I’ve already said herein is that it will be illegal. The bill’s language your article quotes says it will be illegal, if grandfathered coverage lapses, or the policy holder or employer drops coverage it will be illegal to purchase anything other than gov’mt coverage. Right there in YOUR own article. Of course the biggest argument we wing-nuts are making is that no private insurer can possibly survive competing with a government that simply print money. And we already know from your post below how you feel about competition and private corporations and censorship (Hey bullwhacker “just shut up”). How’s that capt’n crunch doin for ya?

    202. Bullwhacker, How come we didn’t hear from your freakness when Bush bankrupted our country by tranferring the treasury to his wealthy friends, or when he wiretapped practically everyone in the nation, or when he made shit up to start a war that has cost us half a trillion dollars and killed almost 4000 of our soldiers and declared mission accomplished while the war is still going on six years later. I’ll tell you why because he’s a malicious little idiot and you thoroughly identify with him like all of the other freepers and paranoid wingnuts that have managed to paralyze this country and turn it into a third world republic.
      Why no peep when corporations (you know, the guys who sponsored the psychotic moron you called your leader)shipped all our jobs to all those brown skin people you so obviously despise.
      During this time you ate up all the propaganda these same corporations spoon fed you through talk radio and Fox news which they own. If you can’t figure out that corporations are protecting their financial interests by feeding you disinformation or no information then you are unable to think logically or critically and should probably shut up and stop making a fool out of yourself. If you are angry because the the economy is going down the tubes look no further than those wealthy right wingers and wallstreeters that have fomented all the divisiveness to get people to not look at them.
      Its not the poor people, the brown skin people or the working people who are pulling the strings or have power, but I’m sure this fact has completely passed you by having ascertained your not so keen sense of observation.

      1. bullwhacker · ·

        Mornin Fred, WOW! Now there’s an argument I wish I’d thought of: “Just shut up!” Nice. I figure what? You’re 5 years old. Evil corporations, eveil, bush, 4k killed. Had’nt heard any of that before. Its still all Bush’s fault. Listen-up. Bush is gone. At some point you’ll need to focus on your guy cause its gonna unravel very quickly. Now go serve yourself some capt’n crunch and don’t miss the cartoons.

        1. bullwhacker · ·

          Just a heads up Fred. I’m deciding how much time to spend on you today. Your post above is such a target rich jumble of anarchist gobledy gook that tempted to respond, bit by bit, all day long. I thrive on it. Since I’ve discovered this site no one has come close to anything resembling honest debate, even your host, ACG, who refuses to engage at all, other than to throw invectives at me. You guys seem to playing some kind of tag team. Thats cool. It means I’m effective. As for you, your post above gives me everything I need to squash you like the anarchist bug you are. You’re not worthy. Send someone else. This is like the cat that discovered the woodshed full of mice. I’m goin over to some sites where real men and women, with real intellect discuss relevant stuff, HONESTLY. Such as, The American Thinker, Powerlineblog.com, Human Events, American Spectator, Lucianne.com. Don’t be childish and come back to trashing these sites. We’ve already established which side we’re on. I’ll check back later.

    203. i love how when bush et al are held up as being responsible, the right wing nuts always come back with “get over it, he’s not president anymore” but will invoke carter, reagan, clinton at the drop of a hat.

      the soldier should be courtmartialed.

      1. bullwhacker · ·

        OOhhh, another mouse. Hellooooh Nancy. So nice to read you. O.K., so the soldier should be court-martialed. Of course he was’nt and isn’t, so why not?

    204. bullwhacker · ·

      Fred, can’t help myself. Had to back here momentarily to offer an example of what claimed was a target rich environment on your 5:03AM post. For example, you say,” If you are angry because the the economy is going down the tubes look no further than those wealthy right wingers and wallstreeters that have fomented all the divisiveness to get people to not look at them.” Well Fred, it just so happens that those evil wallstreeters et al are your guys buddies as well. In fact, if we ever actually engage today, I’ll show you how everyone you rail about are as deep into Obama’s pay to play Chicago/Alinsky style philosophy as you can get. Check this out. The list did not paste but the text is all you need, and there is good reason Obama looked so cool vs McCain when the TARP fiasco started. This I pasted from another oustanding right-wing website, moonbattery.com. This is where huge chunks of bailout and stimulus billions are going. Obama’s one of them:

      Bailout Recipients Were Major Donors to Obama
      In light of the $billions of our money Comrade Obama has showered down upon high-living, crony capitalist parasites, this list should come as no surprise. The top contributors to Obama’s campaign, via OpenSecrets.org:

      For once, Goldman Sachs made a good investment. For less than $1,000,000 in campaign cash, it was handed over $20 billion of our money. Citigroup did better still: it has received over $45 billion of our money, for a paltry $700,000 bribe. No wonder it’s in a position to pay out such generous bonuses, as is Goldman Sachs.

      Of course, there’s another price that has to be paid by bailout recipients. They have to allow the Obamunist media to pillory them as examples of the horrors of capitalism. In reality, they represent the opposite of capitalism, under which these corrupt outfits would mercifully die off in favor of more efficient companies.

      On a tip from Antara.

      Posted by Van Helsing at 9:21 AM | Comments (15)

    205. Bullwhacker, Capitalism has been around a longtime. Where are these efficient companies or capitalists you speak so glowingly of? They don’t exist and never have existed, nor has free market capitalism. If free market capitalism were to exist it would not be long until the more successful of this system would become the new Goldman Sachs.

      I never said anything about Obama. You brought up Obama.
      I simply asked where were all your protestations when your glorious leader sunk this country?

      Just because Obama is continuing his policies doesn’t give you a pass.

      1. bullwhacker · ·

        Bill E. Bob, thats Ms. Taitz.

      2. bullwhacker · ·

        Damn it Fred, thats it? All you got? If capitalism does’nt work, why has it “been around a long time.” Where’s your proven socialist utopia Fred? And how long did it last? Give me an example. Like I said, you’re not worthy.

        1. bullwhacker · ·

          Here’s a snap shot of what to expect next Fred. Like Roberts says, we all will lose. http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts07162009.html

    206. Bill E. Bob · ·

      Mr. Taitz: can you prove that you are a citizen of the United States? Please post documentation to that effect.

      I have reason to believe that you are an agent of the FSB and have risen from sleeper to active status with the mission of initiating social and political discord within the United States.

      Your action with MAJ Cook is an effort to reach inside the US military is, at the very least seditious and outright treasonous.

      George W. Bush and John Yoo had the prescience to breathe life into The Patriot Act and warrantless wiretapping with people like you and your fellow travelers in mind.

      Your day of reckoning as a traitorous foreign agent no less than Jonathan Pollard approaches.

      1. bullwhacker · ·

        Hey billy Bob, ever hear of Al C. Hastings bill to create concentration camps for people like me? Just like Ayers wanted in the 60’s? You down with that?

        1. bullwhacker · ·

          Would you happen to be Joe_heathen over at Washington Independent? Same quote (re: Orly Taitz/Treason) And are you really a heathen?

          1. Bill E. Bob · ·

            Multiple personalities. Same thoughts.

    207. idioteraser · ·

      Private insurance companies would actually be forced to compete if a public health plan is created. Funny how the supporters of capitlism scream when a mechanism to insure capitlistic competition is put in that would elimanate worthless companies and ensure the most profitable companies survive.

      In countries with a public plan private insurance companies still exist and gasp can even afford to buy American health insurance companies and have profits in the hundreds of millions of dollars. Guess what the consumers in those countries that want private insurance pay a fourth of what we do for private insurance and get better health care or equal health care to what the best costliest American private health insurance companies offer.

      Oh wait it’s because in these European countries the private health insurance companies don’t constantly use a private jet to fly to meetings the next city over and eat on gold plates with actual silverware instead the Europeans use the phone and teleconferance software to talk to one another even in another country. Plus the European private insurance companies only spend a few pennies on the dollar for management oversight while American private insurance spends nearly a quarter of every dollar on their management oversight.

      1. bullwhacker · ·

        Oh!…My!…God! Its Idioteraser. How the hell are ya? For the folks out there who don’t know, Idioteraser is the friggin genius who actually profered the claim that Federal law would get Obama impeached if he authorized the release of his own documents. He just grabs this stuff right out of his ass and stinks up the place.

        1. bullwhacker · ·

          Idioteraser, who said the following?Organizations under attack wonder why radicals don’t address the “real” issues. This is why. They avoid things with which they have no knowledge

          1. bullwhacker · ·

            Idioteraser says above, “private (European) health insurance companies don’t constantly use a private jet to fly to meetings the next city over and eat on gold plates with actual silverware…” Idioteraser, sure you’re not confusing Barack and Michelle’s public (dime) romantic getaways to Chicago and Paris?

            1. bullwhacker · ·

              I gotta break away and I know your just a leftwing Zombie, not very high on the lefty food chain, so I’ll give you the answer to the quote. Its Saul Alinsky’s rule #2, in part. Yes, the grand master himself knew the truth belied his own principles.

    208. idioteraser · ·

      There was a CIGNA exec who admitted flying to meetings on private jets and admitted eating from gold plates with real silverware. He also testified before congress on health insurance practices in which they dump customers in order to avoid paying on claims. He talked about a lot of the health insurance industry in America about how they pillage people’s finances and destroy lives. He also testified that Moore was right and that the health industry organized a propaganda campaign against the movie Sicko because the movie was accurate and they didn’t want people to know that.

      1. bullwhacker · ·

        Bravo, no invective around the edges. Just the facts. Thats what I’m talkin about. Good work. This is the closest you’ve come to honest debate. I’m serious. I can work with this kind of stuff. However, I’m doin sumpin else right now, but once again, bravo. Can’t see any apparent holes in your point. Gotta go.

        1. bullwhacker · ·

          Oops, what am I talkin about. Gotta differ on the Michael Moore stuff (Sicko). Gotta go.

    209. Just release the damn birth certificate! Stop making excuses. There is no reason for anyone to not provide a long form COLB unless there is something to hide! All the obfuscation in the world cannot diminish that fact. Why are we defending someone who has spent $800,000+ to lawyers opposing release of not only a birth certificate but other records as well? Has anyone looked into this in depth enough to learn that records have been located which shows B.O. had a social security # for a deceased person when he was in college? That person would have had to be 119 years old if alive. Is anyone aware that other records have been found where he has used other SS#’s? If we can investigate Cheney for trying to kill terrorists through the CIA plan which was fully reported in the New York Times in 2002 (SOME SECRET PROGRAM!!!) Then we ought to be able investigate fully B.O. eligibility to be CIC. Or hey, just continue to make excuses.

      1. Oneiroi · ·

        I’m just going to keep posting this in all of these nonsensical complaints:

        Obama showed his certified birth certificate as verified by the State of Hawaii

    210. By the way, John McCain complied and released all his records including his full BC.

    211. idioteraser · ·

      Check again. McCain did no such thing.

      Hawaii doesn’t provide a long form birth certificate and hasn’t for years. Nor do several other states. Reason being it isn’t needed for identification purposes since a background check confirms just needs the certificate number and the data on the short form is all you need to verify someone’s id. The long form certificate on the other hand has so much data it makes it real easy for ID theives to steal it.

      Also Obama hasn’t spent a single cent. No one on the birther side can name a single Obama lawyer or firm representing him.

      Also your argument about his social security is nonsense. There is no social security number that old.

    212. One has to wonder what would happen if the birthers every decided to do something useful with their lives. Is this overblown distraction the cause of the current recession?

      Greg; Bull: get a job.

      1. How trite; playing the protagonist in your very own epic struggle between Good and Evil must be so much more interesting.

    213. Bullwhacker you’re falling down, snoozing and losing. Socialized medicine in Europe indeed only costs half as much per capita as here. I suppose that is because the insurance companies here are not capitalist and do not represent the efficiencies of true capitalism.
      By the way because capitalism has been around a long time and has worked, doesn’t mean that it is desirable or fair or even raional. If you rub those two neurons together and warm them up you might find you could say the same of feudalism.

      I may be a dreamer and dream of a just society not driven by greed, ego, and neurotic beorgeois individualism that you so enthusiastically embrace. I may even be a utopian. What I am not however, is a paranoid castrated white male dystopian trying to prove my manhood to a world that could care less.

      1. bullwhacker · ·

        Fred asks, “Bullwhacker you’re falling down, snoozing and losing.” and claims I’m “… a paranoid castrated white male dystopian trying to prove my manhood…” You got the snoozing right. As for the castrated part, how the hell would you know. F**king children of the damned. Any grown ups out there? Schoolyard shit. Greg, you sound like you might have a brain. Welcome. I’m goin snoozin again. Back later.

    214. idioteraser · ·

      He cannot authorize them. No one can due to federal law. The damn Republican governer of Hawaii states they cannot take out the Birth Certificate out of the state records vault. Not Obama’s not anybody’s. Nor is anyone who is not an authorized state worker cannot go into the records vault to see any birth certificate till 75 years have passed since it’s issuance.

      So yeah federal and state laws prevent the release of many documents till a certain time period passes or the revelant people who are authorized order their release. Obama is not one of those people.

    215. lonnieAZ · ·

      Such a difference between birthers and honest to goodness literate Americans. The stark difference is amazing! No matter how many negative comments are posted about the President the bigoted viewpoint will continue. They have nothing of substance just more idiotic rhetoric. CNN has debunked the myth yet these uneducated birthers continue the debate. It seems to me they don’t want to know the truth. Do they ever get tired of being WRONG? My guess would be they can’t distinguish between either.

      Continue the great work ACG.


    216. i post on a number of sites, and one thing that is glaringly clear, racism is alive and well. it seems to me that most conservatives just can’t get over the fact that our president is black. it seems to shake them to their very core. so much so, that someone like sarah palin is going to save their party!! they get behind the BC issue and champion one soldier who, frankly, just doesn’t want to go to afghanistan and try to justify his “so-called” lawyer!

    217. Don Gisselbeck · ·

      Wow! read through almost all of this. Now I will do something useful like play mahjong or comment on chemtrails.

    218. DogSoldier · ·

      Just finished reading this whole thread, took me awhile but I’m now – more than ever – confident that Barack Hussein Obama is legally qualified to be President. I want to thank everybody who contributed opinions and articles of substance to the debate. I tried to look at things from both sides, and followed many links to educate myself on the matter. A lot of people contributed to this thread and I thank them all, especially ACG and idioteraser. One minor quibble. On more than one occasion, I saw things denigrate into name-calling and insults. This sort of negativity always detracts from the debate and just makes it more difficult to take seriously. If you want to be taken seriously, leave the childish insults at home or even better, in the past.

      1. b sheppard · ·

        even if he IS ‘legally qualified to be president’ as you assert, why is Obama so Arrogant as to Not produce his Birth Certificate (as requested by at least one federal judge) and End this silliness?

        Answer: Because Something is Rotten here.

        You Obamacrats don’t deserve to be part of the debate because YOU FAIL TO ASK FOR THE SIMPILIST OF PROOF and instead criticize and namecall. now all of you GO TO YOUR ROOM!

        1. Oneiroi · ·

          You won’t believe your so called, simplest of proof.

          I’m just going to keep posting this in all of these nonsensical complaints:

          “Obama showed his certified birth certificate as verified by the State of Hawaii”

          1. b sheppard · ·

            don’t know where you got your info, by why did Obama post a ‘doctored’ Certificate of Live Birth (NOT a B.C.) on the internet, THAT’s the controversy. Capice?

            how is it ‘nonsense’ that folks are Still looking for the elusive B.C. that NO ONE wants to produce???

            1. Oneiroi · ·

              He did not. Capiche? Again, APPROVED BY THE STATE OF HAWAII:


              Authenticated by third party fact checking organization, which accepts no outside donations.


    219. i know of no birth certificate that has foot prints and finger prints.

      also, i can’t get my own kids’ college records, why would i be able to get obama’s?

    220. dogsoldier….sadly most political blogs denigrate to name calling and insults. it’s too bad really, because change is never going to happen under these conditions.

      i blog on a conservative site in boston, just to bring reality back into the picture.. the right-wingers, obama despising people resort to the same insults and then add juvenile graphics. hard to have an adult conversation with those sorts of things going on.

      1. Thanks Nancy, glad to have your note: you’ll also note, both you and Dogsoldier, that no thread other than this one, on the entire site, so degenerates. It’s the caustic effect of the birthers :-/

    221. government controlled health insurance has been around here for decades. medicare, medicaid, tricare, champus. i work in the healthcare field and i think it would be great if the private health insurance companies had a little competition. everyone should pay into it if they want to use it; or keep their current insurance if they so choose.

      people complain that the wait times for procedures in countries with socialized are too long. i had to wait a year for a mammogram appointment here in massachusetts, and then i had to reschedule it, for another 6 month wait!! i mean, who can know one year out if you’re going to be available??? crazy.

      how long are waits in ERs? the one i work in, a level 1 trauma center, people can be sitting out there for up to 6 hours! and once they get back into the treatment pods, hours upon hours again!

      people need the options, but i will add, this isn’t something that should be rushed through like all the other financial decisions in the last year.

    222. idioteraser · ·

      Because of the claims it being doctored are BS based on jpg compression due to scanning and then being shown on a computer monitor. Also a Certificate of Live Birth is a Birth Certificate. There are two types of Birth Certificates one for live births and for one if the fetus is dead. It’s called a Cerficiate of Fetal Death. People don’t request those however yet they are kept in the state records vault.

      Also the certificate is available for view. Any damn reporter could go and see it as well as touch it and contact the Hawaiian state goverment. Turns out several agencies did. They are convinced it is the real certificate that is printed upon request if someone wants their birth certificate and they were born in Hawaii.

    223. Emmanuil · ·

      Why republicans didn’t use this serious argument durig campaign?

    224. idioteraser · ·

      Because McCain, Clinton and others investigated and found it to be baseless and something only the most deranged wingnut would believe in.

      1. b sheppard · ·

        idiot, your insults don’t change the facts, politicians frequently have less than honest reasons for illogical actions. why did scooter libby go to jail & sandy berger wasn’t even indicted?

        produce the B.C., clowns.

    225. i must say, i stumbled on this site (still trying to figure out how) and i’m very glad i did. you are an intelligent group and i will enjoy posting with you.

    226. bullwhacker · ·

      Hey Idioteraser, just when I’ve managed to stay the hell off this left wing whack job site, you keep pullin me back in.

      Can you please esplane these two prior posts and I’m just usin your own words. At 7/16 11:06 you said this:
      “It’s called federal law. The president cannot release records that are sealed by federal law. Every judge will tell you this unless there is a procedure in the relevant laws that allows them to be unsealed as well as by whom the president cannot do jack about their being sealed. Often these laws have a time period. Often times it’s about the average human life span or twenty five years.” End of quote.

      Then, just above at 12:09 today, you said this:
      “Also the certificate is available for view. Any damn reporter could go and see it as well as touch it and contact the Hawaiian state goverment. Turns out several agencies did. They are convinced it is the real certificate that is printed upon request if someone wants their birth certificate and they were born in Hawaii.

      Just askin!

      1. bullwhacker · ·

        While you devise another twisted reponse, I’d like to caution you on another statement you made at your same 12:09 today. You said, “There are two types of Birth Certificates one for live births and for one if the fetus is dead. It’s called a Cerficiate of Fetal Death. People don’t request those however yet they are kept in the state records vault.” End of quote.
        This kind of talk will just pour gas on the fire with the “manchurian” candidate conspiracy debate. Just sayin.

        1. bullwhacker · ·

          Oh!…My!…God! How did I forget this one. Here’s Idioteraser at 7/16 7:05PM:

          “Once again in every single state that is a state document that cannot be taken out of the Department of Health’s vault. In several states the public cannot view records until a certain period of time has passed in Hawaii it is 75 years and state certified genealogists are the only ones allowed to view them for research purposes prior to the 75 year period expiring as well as certified state health workers. No one can have their original birth certificate released. No one not the president, not the Supreme Court no one can.”

          Like I’ve said at 7/18 4:29PM, “He (Idioteraser)just grabs this stuff right out of his ass and stinks up the place.”

    227. idioteraser · ·

      Obama’s copy that he requested from the Hawaii department of Health and Vital services when people demanded that he prove he was born in Hawaii was on the walls of his Chicago Campaign headquarters. Reporters from various outlets went to see it and touched it. They then contacted the Hawaiian authorities who verified it matches certificate form they give out when someone’s requests their birth certificate and what was on the Chicago Campaign Headquarters matches what is on Obama’s certificate in their records vault down to the number of his birth.

      1. b sheppard · ·

        hmmmmm, doesn’t appear to answer the query on which hospital/doctor/other pertinent stuff. why is there still so many questions about the facts of his birth circumstances? wouldn’t the actual source document be valuable in that regard? what about the argument that, say, kids that are born at home are documented by application for a COLB, based soley on the parents’ statements. if everything is so above board, why is the source info not forthcoming?

        what about the recent flap over which hospital can claim his birth? is the 1961 vintage dept. of health recordkeeping just an embarassment that Hawaii doesn’t want to admit to? is That why we heard that Gov. Lingle would not allow access to the records during the campaign? the HHHG (head hawaii health guy) says he has seen the original, but does not state that it shows obama was born in Hawaii (apparently one could apply for a BC for their kid even if born elsewhere, at that time).

        so why the stonewalling? why the B.S.? why the copies but no originals? it seems like a fair question to ask: Where’s the Birth Certificate???

    228. idioteraser · ·

      ” sandy berger ”

      Why would he go to Jail? He was sentenced to two years of probation after pleading quilty also his crimes occured when Clinton was out of office. The Scooter went to jail for refusing on four out of five criminal charges and held three goverment positions under Shrub Jr.


      1. bullwhacker · ·

        Jeeez, took me forever to figure where the hell Sandy Berger came from (B Sheppard at 7/20 1:29PM) Quick observations:

        First, the conviction counts in the NYT link are inaccurate I believe, but I’ll have to research.

        Second, Bergers actions were at the behest of his former boss, Bill Clinton, and no one questions that documents he stole from the archives related to Clinton’s efforts, while POTUS, concerning what he did or did not do to combat terrorism. This occurred while the 9/11 commission was investigating. Contrast that with current events and the left still trying to get Bush/Cheney/Rove in the docket for stuff they did.

        Third, Scooter’s jury foreman was a lefty plant. The grand jury was a perjury trap since Fitzpatrick, Colin Powell and Armitage all knew, prior to the grand jury, that Armitage exposed Plame, not Rove. Wilson and PLame are liars.

      2. b sheppard · ·

        idiot, so your argument is that scooter went to jail because he worked for Bush? is that how justice works?

        how about the FACT that the a-hole investigator in this case didn’t even bother to find out whether a crime was committed? “prosecuting the outing valerie plame”! put that in your book of democraptic achievements

    229. bullwhacker · ·

      I say again, “Oh!…My!…God! How did I forget this one. Here’s Idioteraser at 7/16 7:05PM:

      “Once again in every single state that is a state document that cannot be taken out of the Department of Health’s vault. In several states the public cannot view records until a certain period of time has passed in Hawaii it is 75 years and state certified genealogists are the only ones allowed to view them for research purposes prior to the 75 year period expiring as well as certified state health workers. No one can have their original birth certificate released. No one not the president, not the Supreme Court no one can.”

      Like I’ve said at 7/18 4:29PM, “He (Idioteraser)just grabs this stuff right out of his ass and stinks up the place.”

      Comment by bullwhacker July 20, 2009 @ 2:40

    230. idioteraser · ·

      Do you want me to quote the Hawaiian statue that says birth certificate records are not public records nor can be released by anyone not even the governer nor the courts and are kept in storage for 75 years where upon then they may be viewed by the public?

      Numerous other states have similar statues. Florida is 100 years.

    231. idioteraser · ·

      “He (Idioteraser)just grabs this stuff right out of his ass and stinks up the place.”

      As Triumph the Insult Comic Dog says you are just asking to be pooped on. No one can make these records public or take them out. The President showed his certified copy. The Hawaii Department of Health confirmed it and that he was born in Hawaii.

      §338-18 Disclosure of records. (a) To protect the integrity of vital statistics records, to ensure their proper use, and to ensure the efficient and proper administration of the vital statistics system, it shall be unlawful for any person to permit inspection of, or to disclose information contained in vital statistics records, or to copy or issue a copy of all or part of any such record, except as authorized by this part or by rules adopted by the department of health.

      (b) The department shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record.

      (e) The department may permit persons working on genealogy projects access to microfilm or other copies of vital records of events that occurred more than seventy-five years prior to the current year.

      1. bullwhacker · ·

        “Insult Comic Dog?” Dude, look around you and describe the others in the room for us. Anyone dressed in white jackets? Is Comic Dog the other voice?

        In an earlier post I asked to you explain this quote from staff (Kristy Watanabe) at the last reported birthplace of Obama. Reporters are attempting to get the hospital to verify Obama’s claim, in a January 1, 2009 letter to the hospital, that it was the place where he was born. Here it is again. Note the last sentence:

        “Despite numerous requests last week for the hospital to verify the correspondence, Kapi’olani spokeswoman Kristy Watanabe would only say: “Federal law does not permit us to provide any more details concerning information [about Obama’s birth] without authorization from Mr. Obama.”

        Now here’s another quote from Idioteraser, concerning Obama’s refusal to release the BC.:

        “Dead wrong he cannot do it since it would violate numerous federal laws as well as state laws. He would get impeached for it.”

        That was Idioteraser at July 16, 7:25PM.

        Tell Insult Comic Dog I just pooped on him.

        1. Oneiroi · ·

          He released it. You choose not to believe him, but he showed it, and it’s been approved by the state as authentic:

          There are records of the announcement in the local Hawaiin papers: http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Obama_1961_birth_announcement_from_Honolulu_Advertiser

          It’s been personally handled by fact checking organizations: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

          If you really think this is all a trick…Congratulations! You will be receiving your conspiracy theorists package in the mail in 4-6 weeks!

    232. idioteraser · ·

      Fascinating why you do birthers insist he wasn’t born in Hawaii when the Hawaiian hospital says he was born there since they would have to be authorized to reveal info on his birth at the hospital?

      Also once he doesn’t have to do jack when he legally has done everything required to show that he was born in Hawaii to the people listed as his parents.

      1. bullwhacker · ·

        Idioteraser, I’m not pickin on you anymore. I finally get it. Took a while. It was the Insult Comic Dog that did the trick.

      2. b sheppard · ·

        why Wouldn’t the hospital claim to be Obama’s birthplace? based on WHAT?

        it’s hard not to be curious why all this looks like some kind of cover-up attempt. where did the cy of the Honolulu Advertiser come from? why is that not mentioned?

        so many reasons to wonder why the secrecy around the (long form?) ORIGINAL birth documentation! WHY so many months & still no documentation? just more B.S., legal mumbo jumbo, insults, excuses. enuf of the copies & bureaucracy. Show Me the Real Document!

    233. bullwhacker · ·

      First, think of my tete-a-tete with Idioteraser not as any defense of “birtherism” or whatever you call it. I’m simply refuting some very wild inconsistencies.

      Second, I’ve been to your first link. MR. Fukino’s press release makes no reference whatsoever to the place of birth. None. All it verifies is that Obama’s records conform to state law which, in 1961, allowed a process of registration of births outside the U.S.

      Third, your link to his birth announcement shows that within 9 days of his birth, someone wanted the friends and/or relatives of the family in Hawaii to know that Stanley and Barrack Sr. had a child 9 days earlier. The announcement makes no mention of the place of birth, either in Hawaii or Mombassa. Proud parenting is not new.

      Fourth, I will not consider anthing from FactCheck, because of my utter disdain for all things tied Soros.

      1. bullwhacker · ·

        Hold on, hold, I just succumbed to the temptation at FactCheck and I’ve already the bovine scat meter is off the charts. What’s this?

        We asked the Obama campaign about the date stamp and the blacked-out certificate number. The certificate is stamped June 2007, because that’s when Hawaii officials produced it for the campaign, which requested that document and “all the records we could get our hands on” according to spokesperson Shauna Daly. The campaign didn’t release its copy until 2008, after speculation began to appear on the Internet questioning Obama’s citizenship. The campaign then rushed to release the document, and the rush is responsible for the blacked-out certificate number. Says Shauna: “[We] couldn’t get someone on the phone in Hawaii to tell us whether the number represented some secret information, and we erred on the side of blacking it out. Since then we’ve found out it’s pretty irrelevant for the outside world.” The document we looked at did have a certificate number; it is 151 1961 – 010641.

        “…some secret information…so we erred on the side of blacking it out. Of course, if you are engaged in the sport of cover-up, you err on the side of verifying the friggin numbers don’t torpedo your efforts.” Maybe, maybe not. Just sayin. Sniff, sniff!

      2. Oneiroi · ·

        If you seriously think that the parents, the state officials who confirmed his record in the state of hawaii, the local newspapers, everyone who has physically seen the document, the government officials that swore in Obama, or the unedited pictures of the brith certificate…are all involved in a cover up…

        “Congratulations! You will be receiving your conspiracy theorists package in the mail in 4-6 weeks!”

        Sorry man, you can nitpick all you want and doubt everything before you. I don’t think you’ll ever be satisfied.

        BTW the moon landing anniversary is today. Any theories about that sound stage while we’re at it?

        1. bullwhacker · ·

          So Oneiroi, what “secret information” might the Obama campaign have been worried about in 2007? Rule #5 baby! Right?

          1. Oneiroi · ·

            The birth certificate code? Is that what you’re talking about?

            The one that’s here?

            C’mon, you honestly think that because they had privacy concerns that means they’re hiding something? If that’s true, can I have your SSN?

    234. his BC was taken to the fake moon by the astronauts on the faked moon landing. didn’t you get that memo???

      1. bullwhacker · ·

        Rule #5, right?

    235. idioteraser · ·

      And the reason it was produced for the campaign was due to the background checks that all presidental canidates have to do. Doesn’t matter if they were cleared before it’s a procedure.

      This is why in the past few elections the Communist party and a few other third parties have two sets of canididates since one set isn’t valid either due to age or nationality to be a citizen. In the states that ask for proof of citizenship to be on the ballot the Communist party uses one set while in the states that do not they use another set. It’s a publicity stunt for them.

      1. bullwhacker · ·

        This is rule #5, right?

    236. idioteraser · ·

      Sigh once again Hawaii and many other states will give out a birth certificate in the case of an adoption not only to babies born in the US but abroad. Thing is the original certificate would state adoption and the original place of birth.

      Also even if Obama wasn’t adopted but born in another country his birth certificate would say he was born in a foreign country. The US has procedures and rules detailing this so US citizens born abroad can get birth certificates for identification purposes.

      Second thing is the birth annoucements came from the hospital. Private citizens didn’t put forth the birth annoucements it was the state department of health.

      1. bullwhacker · ·

        Nancy, Oneiroi, and Idioteraser, I have seen your birth certificates. Please explain how in the hell Jim Jones is in each and every box.

    237. bullwhacker · ·

      Lets hear it for rule #5.

      1. bullwhacker · ·

        I have seen Obama’s long form birth certificate. His father is George Herbert Walker Bush. Go here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/20/AR2009072002277_pf.html

        1. bullwhacker · ·

          His mother was Dumbo (the ears).

    238. bullwhacker · ·

      Aaahh! 10th out of 12. Don’t these people realize Obama is natural born? This will cheer you up:


      1. bullwhacker · ·

        2010! Woo-hoo!

    239. bullwhacker · ·

      Woah, woah, now wait just a minute. Don’t theeeeze people realize that Obama was born in Hawaii. This will cheer you up:


      But, but, I thought all that mattered was he is from Hawaii. Whats up wit that? How can this be?

    240. I will now entertain formal motions to disemvowel all future posts by Bullwhacker.

      1. bullwhacker · ·

        The ultimate compliment. Why does it require a vote? Like I’ve said before, censorship is your stock and trade. It hurts don’t it?

        1. bullwhacker · ·

          I was just about to reveal who I am!

        2. You stopped raising substantive issues a long time ago. Now it’s just trolling.

          1. bullwhacker · ·

            Trolls. I thought they were short and ugly. I’m tall, dark and handsome.

    241. bullwhacker · ·

      You have got to be kidding me. Don’t theeeeze people realize Obama was born in Hawaii? How can this be? He’s got both freakin houses of congress! Whats up with that?


      I have since seen the light. I now love & respect President Obama, and hereby forswear all other bullshit conspiracy theories. Obama’s the President, we landed on the moon forty years ago, the Holocaust happened and was an awful tragedy, same with 9/11 and it wasn’t an inside job, evolution is firmly grounded in science, and so is global warming.

      I’m free!!!!!

      1. bullwhacker · ·


        1. bullwhacker · ·

          Like a moth to a flame what drove me to your site is your utter lack of humor, a dominant trait of lefties. You’re too easy, but I could not resist. Now that ACG has declared I’m free here’s who I really am:

          1. bullwhacker · ·

            OOOps, scratch the global warming. Its a freakin hoax, right?

            1. global warming; hoax ? for those that would use the promotion of such theory as a means to enrich themselves..perhaps
              bad science? absolutely.
              no responsible, reasonable, truly thoughtful scientist would sign on to this “the sky is falling” hysteria

          2. DuneChild · ·

            That was a sweet video! Who doesn’t love the gratuitous, yet non-lethal firing of really big guns? I gotta get one of those automatic pistols!

            Sadly, an affinity for the Second Amendment seems to be the only thing we have in common. Your question about the illegal private insurance was baseless, there is no such thing in any bill before Congress. And seriously, do you think Senators McCain and Clinton, not to mention all of the SCJs and the leaders of both parties are all joined in a conspiracy to hide the truth about the President’s constitutional eligibility?
            FWIW – I have my long-form Certificate of Live Birth, and it contains a lot of information that could be used for nefarious purposes if it were released to the public. Would you honestly accept any proof if parts of it were blacked out? Would you not then ask why is his mother’s SSN blacked out? What don’t they want us to know about her SSN?

          3. LOgicalperson · ·

            Who do you plan to kill?

    242. bullwhacker · ·

      When you think of Bullwhacker’s influence on your site ACG, think of balance.

      1. bullwhacker · ·

        ACG, please, disemvowel me before the wife disembowels me.

        1. bullwhacker · ·

          Ok Ok one last comment, the most relevant and “SUBSTANTIVE” of all; if you lefties really, really, take all that has heretofore been stated, by all sides, it is you folks that keep the birthers alive, not them. If you simply joined them in asking for the long form certificate this would all be over, one way or the other. By not doing so, you keep it alive. I’m outa here!

          1. Oneiroi · ·

            We don’t have a problem with the myriads of certification that are out there. No one with any credibility is doubting this. Take up your own silly battle.

            Bon Voyage!

          2. Man, I hope you’re really gone.

    243. Steve1776 · ·

      Sure the birther’s claim is ridiculous, but still, we’ve got a guy whose orders were revoked before the suit got off the ground. Occam’s razor says it’s because they don’t want an easily duped coward like Cook on active duty, but where’s the court martial? Any discipline? Does anyone with a working understanding of the relevant branch of the service in question have any input here? What can we expect to happen next? It’s my understanding that Cook asked to be deployed so as to gain standing in his case. If that’s the case, does his suit act to rescind his request to be deployed? Can you do that? Is there any penalty?

    244. idioteraser · ·

      The goofball volunteered to deploy and the military says those volunteers can withdraw if they want. The goofball is a pawn of Oily Taint and the posts said goofball made on various forums shows he only volunteered in order to have the suit filed.

      He did lose his job with a private defense contractor and perhaps he may face charges not sure which besides wasting the courts time and violations of military ethics.

    245. bullwhacker · ·

      Good news comrades, our leader is a genius:


      To think that evil Bush could only jack-up unemployment to an 8 year average of less than 6%. What a fool.

      1. Oh Good God; up above, you said one last comment. Please, go away.

    246. idioteraser · ·

      Obviously you have never bothered to research how the unemployment statistic is calculated and how that calculation has changed over the years.

      Unemployment is actually considered to always be about two to three times higher then the percantage quoted.

      Also Bush’s effects have taken a while to come out. Most economists who predicated this depression due to the Bush policies stated that unemployment would be much higher then Obama’s predication namely due to him not being able to use the 4th quarter results which hadn’t come out yet.

      Without the stimulus the unemployment was predicated to be 13%-15% and would continue to get worse. With the stimulus which was watered down with Republican inititaves in order to secure their votes (bipartinship to Republicans means having the Democrats be their slaves so the American people can be molested to the full extent) the unemployment was predicated to be 11% and the economy would slowly recover.

      1. Oneiroi · ·

        Yeah, too many people like using economics as political weapons.

        People always like to take credit and place blame where it’s convenient for their politics. They say, oh this economic boon is because of the delay in policy, but also try to take credit for current economic boons as well. Vice versa for blame.

      2. bullwhacker · ·

        Ooooooh Kaaaay… But I question your predicate.

        1. bullwhacker · ·

          That was meant for Idioeraser.

    247. […] response to the “lawyer” who’s been aiding egging on that Birther […]

    248. bullwhacker · ·

      Comrade Idioteraser, I need help spinning this to our followers. I’m new at this (3 days). Please advise. Why won’t our leader release the post June results so we can defend ourselves? The “red” line is scaring me. Is the choice of red subliminal?

      1. bullwhacker · ·

        I know, lets say the bottom line is really Bush’s projection. Yea, that’s what I’ll tell em. Boy, I’m getting the hang of it already.

        1. Oneiroi · ·

          I don’t understand 9/10 of what you say.

          1. bullwhacker · ·

            At 7/20 10:55PM our host, ACG, dictated the following to me:

            “I have since seen the light. I now love & respect President Obama, and hereby forswear all other bullshit conspiracy theories. Obama’s the President, we landed on the moon forty years ago, the Holocaust happened and was an awful tragedy, same with 9/11 and it wasn’t an inside job, evolution is firmly grounded in science, and so is global warming.

            I’m free!!!!!

            I’m just trying to be free.

    249. No Free Lunch · ·

      Below are two official emails that dispute the public version of Obama’s Birth and his mother’s marriage to BHO Sr.

      From: pubrec@u.washington.edu [mailto:pubrec@u.washington.edu]
      Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008
      Subject: Re: Stanley “Ann” Dunham 1960 to 1970 class registration

      Ms. Stanley Ann Dunham (BHO II’s mom) was enrolled at the University of Washington for:

      Autumn 1961
      Winter 1962
      Spring 1962

      The records responsive to your request from the University of Washington are above as provided by the Public Disclosure Laws of Washington State. This concludes the University’s response to your Public Records request. Please feel free to contact our office if you have any questions or concerns.

      Madolyne Lawson
      Office of Public Records

      From: Stuart Lau [mailto:stuartl@hawaii.edu]
      Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008
      Subject: Re: Inquiry

      The University of Hawaii at Manoa is only able to provide the following information for Stanley Ann Dunham:
      Dates of attendance:
      Fall 1960 (First day of instruction 9/26/1960)
      Spring 1963 – Summer 1966
      Fall 1972 – Fall 1974
      Summer 1976
      Spring 1978
      Fall 1984 – Summer 1992

      Degrees awarded:
      BA – Mathematics, Summer 1967 (August 6, 1967)
      MA – Anthropology, Fall 1983 (December 18, 1983)
      PhD – Anthropology, Summer 1992 (August 9, 1992)

      Sincerely, Stuart Lau
      Stuart Lau
      University Registrar
      Office of Admissions and Records
      University of Hawaii at Manoa
      Ph: (808) 956-8010

      Commentary on University Emails:

      For the BHO II Hawaiian Aug 4 1961 COLB to be accurate the following improbable events needed to occur:

      1 month after starting classes, Stanley Ann Dunham, Barack’s mom, at age 17, got pregnant by the only black African man on the entire chain of Hawaiian islands.
      2 months after getting pregnant, she drops out of college.
      3 months after getting pregnant, she marries BHO Sr.
      10 months after her first day at the U of HI, she delivers BHO II and immediately leaves her parents, her new husband, and her home, to fly alone with a newborn 2800 miles to Seattle to start college at the U of W.
      Stanley Ann Dunham does not return to Hawaii until AFTER BHO Sr left the islands for Harvard.

      This is an implausible series of events made even more nefarious because Obama II in his 2 bio books never mentions his mom left Hawaii when she was married to BHO Sr, nor does he mention she was in Washington State during this time.

      Barack’s sister was born in Indonesia, and has a COLB from Hawaii like Obama II. She is NOT a “Natural Born Citizen” of the USA as required by the Constitution to become president…and Obama probably isn’t either.

      1. bullwhacker · ·

        Boy, now you’ve done it. I’ve been a lefty 3 whole days and just when I’m getting the hang of it along comes No Free Lunch. I’m really confused now. So, I think I remember Obama saying in “Dreams” that mom and dad eloped on their wedding. To this day Obama has no idea where they went. There’s a pattern somewhere. Lets go to our resident expert Idioteraser. What say ye Idioteraser?

    250. idioteraser · ·

      Maya’s COLB states she wasn’t born in Hawaii. Reason why Hawaii and numerous states give out birth certificates to people not born in the US is because they need one if they are adopted by US citizens as a infant or minor child or they are born to US citizens living outside of the US. In the case of adoption the certificate the person has states that state as their birth place like most adoption certificates do due to the laws put in place when adoption was considered shamefull. If the person is a US citizen born abord their certificate lists the country of birth on their state issued certificate. She is a natural born citizen as defined by the law since her mother was a US citizen. She can run for US president. Laws change bucko and the law for the past few decades has been if one or both parents were US citizens you were a natural born citizen.

      http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2004334057_obama08m.html shows how full of it you are.

      His mother married his biological father in Feb 1961. She was three months pregnant when she married.



      The first African student at the University of Hawaii, Barack Hussein Obama, reached Honolulu 11 months before Stanley Ann Dunham and her parents got there from Seattle. He was on the first airlift of Kenyan students brought to study at U.S. universities as part of a program organized by Kenyan nationalist Tom Mboya and funded primarily by hundreds of American supporters. At the time, there were no colleges in Kenya, which was in the last throes of British colonialism. His arrival in Honolulu was announced in an article in a local newspaper, the Star-Bulletin, under the headline: “Young Men from Kenya, Jordan and Iran Here to Study at U.H.”

    251. bullwhacker · ·

      Anyone out there ever see the movie featuring Charlie Bronson as a Soviet plant residing in Denver for years when he got a coded message over the radio that triggered his pre-programmed assault on U.S. military installations? That could be Stanley Dunham. I’ll bet ya. And furthermore, what if she pro-grammed BOII to succeed her? So now the only question is, what coded radio message will trigger BOII? Why does insist so much on keeping his Ipod? Huh?

      1. bullwhacker · ·

        Got it. The movie was Telefon (1977).

    252. bullwhacker · ·

      I’ve been censored. Tisk tisk. Aw come on ACG. What will I do? Where else can I go?

    253. There is a new conspiracy.

      Bush and Bin Laden were partners. They were both hell bent on destroying America.

    254. Anyone have thoughts on whether THIS constitutes the “practice of law” outside the state of California? Interesting to read her “Criminal complaint, demand for investigation and prosecution” sent to the US Attorney for the Eastern District of Texas, in which she states that at “a number of my plaintiffs reside in the state of Texas.”


    255. catsy83 · ·

      ACG, some points you raise regarding CA discipline are interesting. I guess it’s up to the Bar if and after someone reports her for violations.
      As for ABA membership, I’m sure by now you know that’s not needed, nor do you have to graduate from an ABA-accredited law school to be an ABA member (as far as I know).
      I am surprised tho that she passed the CA bar after finishing an unaccredited law school. Wonder how many tries it took her. But, it makes me much more hopeful about my own passage chances. :)

    256. idioteraser · ·

      Actually passing a state bar exam isn’t as difficult as people claim. My father passed it with a perfect score his first time and people claim the older exams were much much harder and guess what the vast majority of people passed it their first time. To be honest I can pass most tests that have a several hour time period to take in about 20 minutes and I just sleep the rest of the time.

      I don’t even study either. I find studying for a test makes me do worse.

    257. We’ve got a nice new summary of the birth-certificate question right here from Jon Stewart:


    258. Re a comment waaaaay back:

      “a Natural Born Citizen of the U.S. is one born of citizen parents(naturalized or natural born)and on the soil.”

      Funny, 11 months after our immigration to the States, my younger sister was born to my British parents.

      That makes her a citizen of the US. There is no requirement that the *parents* be citizens if the person is born in US territory.

      1. she may be a citizen by the accepted common law, now
        she , however, is NOT a natural born citizen.
        hereditary right. the word “natural” you are attempting to render superfluous

    259. […] crazier than Orly Taitz, the “lawyer-dentist” (and the “lawyer” part may be sketchy, since she apparently got her “law degree” online…) leader of the birther […]

    260. Just a few corrections

      ABA membership is not required to practice law in any state. The ABA is a voluntary organization, like the state bar associations.

      As for some of the birther points:

      Law practice client list — Not released (because it is confidential and privileged)
      11 and 12. Harvard Law Review and other articles – Not Released (If Obama published articles they’re on Nexis-look ’em up).

    261. You, my friend, as you said, are definitely not a lawyer, and know even less about admissions of lawyers to practice law. You sound much like the ABA school good ol’ boy mafia who revel at any chance to degrade anyone who is not a member of their club. I say club because the ABA is not a sanctioning organization in any state. Each state sets there own rules for admissions, and while some states rely on the accreditation of a school by the ABA to be a factor in admissions, it is only that, one of many factors. Attending an “ABA” accredited law school is not a prerequisite to practice law in CA. Many, many people who have attended schools such as Ms.Taitz take and pass the CBX every year. In fact a growing number of states are admitting lawyers who did not graduate from an “ABA” accredited lawschool. While I know little of Ms. Taitz, I do know (from her website)that she is admitted to practice before the U.S. Supreme Court which requires a lawyer to be admitted and in good standing for at least four years. When you go to law school, and then pass a bar exam, then you can talk. Until then, you should just comment on things you know at least a little bit about. And oh, by the way, when you do graduate from law school, why don’t you give the California Bar Exam, which Ms. Taitz took and passed, a try. Just so you know, I’m being a bit facetious, the CBX is known by all to be the absolute hardest in the country. And since you have obviously not passed any bar exam . . . well, you know what you should do. Or maybe just go back to tooting Obama’s horn, you seem to be good at that at least.

    262. idioteraser · ·

      It’s incredibly easy to appear before the Supreme Court. Even the most incompetant lawyer can do so if he feels the need to spend a few hundred dollars a year to register.

    263. Damn. Just read through this blog for the first time. Yes, the whole thing. Politics aside, you “birthers” sure don’t argue your case very well. I kept reading looking for ONE good post from your side of the argument. I’m a teacher, and I would flunk every birther on this blog if they tried to turn in papers in my class with such incompetent logic and lack of data. I’m staying out of the argument, so you don’t know my views. I’m just saying that the poor quality of your posts makes you look stupid.

      1. Amen to that!

      2. There isn’t any ‘case to argue’.
        BO Sr was NOT an immigrant to the U.S.
        His children are NOT natural born citizens of the United States.
        No argument. Just attempting to combat obscurantists in overdrive we only want to see the Supreme Law of the Land upheld. Lord only knows what motivates some of these characters who appear to relish its demise

        1. LOgicalperson · ·

          Barack Hussein Obama II was born in Hawaii. Aug 4, 1961. His mother is American Citizen Stanley Dunham,, his father is Kenyan Barack Hussein Obama, SR. Any person born in the United States, is a Natural Born Citizen. Neither parent must be a citizen. Born in the country = Natural Born Citizen. He attended Occidental, then Transferred to Columbia. His name is in the . STudent Directory

    264. Peter Wolf · ·

      I’m not an American citizen, nor do I reside in the USA. I have however spent quite a bit of time in the USA on business and holidays. I think it is a wonderful country, and full of rather nice people. I work as an analyst and researcher (for a large American company at that) and have for about the last 15 years had quite an interest in American politics.

      From an outside perspective, I have this to say of those so quaintly referred to as birthers; they are indeed batsh*t crazy. Those of us who are on the outside looking in tend to watch the whole birther thing as a kind of funny train wreck, in progress. Mind you, there’s really not many outsiders who look too hard as it plain that the birthers are good for little but (to put it graciously) entertainment value. And that fades rather quickly.

      The great majority of posts I see from birthers are simple repetition of talking points, most of these postings being made by people with too few clues and too much time who also cause me to wonder that either Darwin was wrong or society has developed far too much compassion. As I see it, argument by canard is really quite boorish.

      I personally don’t have the patience to even attempt to debunk the arguments put forth by the birthers as the simple truth is no one can. The arguments they use are not exactly sane or rational. Honestly, it does not take a genius to spot the numerous flaws in what they apparently try to pass off as logical discourse. I think the writing is on the wall when even Michelle Malkin appears to think them a few sandwiches short of a picnic.

      And feel free to look at my words as an ad hominem attack, but for that to be true, there would need to be an argument based on reason made by the birthers. To date, I simply don’t see one.

      1. One only hopes this post was made in geste. Otherwise, you are beyond pathetic.
        ARTICLE II SEC1 CL 5

    265. Orly is a shameless racist and an ignorant lier. I know some former Soviets have a grudge at anything that faintly resembles social justice, but the black smears of eye shadow on this “Doctor” tell volumes about her shadowy past as a three-ruble whore at some provincial railroad station.

    266. Orly is a very simple mental case. Why isn’t it obvious to everyone? She cannot be taken seriously, but, on the other hand the majority of people are pretty much the same. People, when you go crazy do some exercise, go for a walk and don’t pay attention to the idiots – let them drive themselves crazy…

    267. You are poorly informed on the constitutional issue involved with Obama’s eligibility to be President. The primary issue is whether Obama is an Article II “natural born Citizen,” not whether he was born in the U.S. When drafting the eligibility requirements for the President, the Founding Fathers distinguished between “Citizen” and “natural born Citizen” in Article II, sec. 1, cl. 5 and in Articles I, III, and IV of the Constitution. Per the Founders, while Senators and Representatives can be just “citizens,” after 1789 the President must be a “natural born Citizen.” The Founders wanted to assure that the Office of President and Commander in Chief of the Military, a non-collegial and unique and powerful civil and military position, was free of all foreign influence and that its holder have sole and absolute allegiance, loyalty, and attachment to the U.S. The “natural born Citizen” clause was the best way for them to assure this.

      The distinction between “citizen” and “natural born Citizen” is based on the law of nations which became part of our national common law. According to that law as explained by Vattel in his, The Law of Nations, a “citizen” is simply a member of the civil society. To become a “citizen” is to enter into society as a member thereof. On the other hand, a “natural born Citizen” is a child born in the country of two citizen parents who have already entered into and become members of the society. Vattel also tells us that it is the “natural born Citizen” who will best preserve and perpetuate the society. This definition of the two distinct terms has been adopted by many United States Supreme Court decisions. Neither the 14th Amendment (which covers only “citizens” who are permitted to gain membership in and enter American society by either birth on U.S. soil or by naturalization and being subject to the jurisdiction of the United States), nor Congressional Acts, nor any case law has ever changed the original common law definition of a “natural born Citizen.” Congressional Acts and case law, like the 14th Amendment, have all dealt with the sole question of whether a particular person was going to be allowed to enter into and be a member of American society and thereby be declared a “citizen.” Never having been changed, the original constitutional meaning of a “natural born Citizen” prevails today. It is this definition of “natural born Citizen” which gives the Constitutional Republic the best chance of having a President and Commander in Chief of the Military who has sole and absolute allegiance, loyalty, and attachment to the United States. By satisfying all conditions of this definition, all other avenues of acquiring other citizenships and allegiances (jus soli or by the soil and jus sanguinis or by descent) are cut off. I call this state of having all other means of acquiring other citizenships or allegiances cut off unity of citizenship which is what the President must have at the time of birth.

      Obama’s father was born in Kenya when it was a British colony. When he came to America, he was probably here on a student visa and he never became a legal resident of the U.S. or an immigrant. He had no attachment to the U.S. other than to study in its prestigious educational institutions which he did for the sole purpose of returning to Kenya and applying his learning there for the best interests of that nation. In fact, when he completed his studies, he did return to Kenya and worked for its government.

      If Obama was born in Hawaii, at best, he is a U.S. “citizen” under the 14th Amendment and federal statute. But he is not a “natural born Citizen” under the Constitution, for at the time of his birth under the British Nationality Act 1948 his father was a British subject and Obama himself through descent was also a British subject. Obama has himself admitted to the controlling effect of the British Nationality Act 1948 on his birth. Additionally, in 1963, both his father and Obama also became Kenyan citizens when Kenya obtained its independence from Great Britain.

      Obama was born with multiple allegiances (at birth both U.S., if born in the U.S., and British, and also acquired Kenyan citizenship at age 2). Obama also obtained Indonesian citizenship when he was adopted by his step-father in Indonesia at age 6. The Founders would not have allowed such a person who was not born with sole allegiance, loyalty, and attachment to the United States to be President and most importantly, Commander in Chief of the Military. We the People have too many “natural born Citizens” in our country, the largest group of citizens by far, from whom to pick to risk jeopardizing the best interests of the United States by allowing a person born with conflicting allegiances and loyalties to be President and Commander in Chief of our Military. There simply is no sound reason for risking America’s national security, welfare, and ultimate preservation by allowing a non-“natural born Citizen” to be President and Commander in Chief of the Military. To permit it is a violation of Article II of our Constitution, the supreme law of our land.
      Mario Apuzzo, Esq.

      1. Hey, speaking of de Vattel – and boy, do the birthers like talking about him – you know what’s really interesting? If you look at the two earliest English translation of the Droit des Gens, the Newbury edition of 1759-60 and the White edition of 1787, the words “natural born citizen” never appear anywhere at all.

        In the original French, the passage that the birthers build their fragile little case on (Book 1, Ch. 19, §212) says: “Les Naturels ou indigènes font ceux qui font nés dans le pays de Parens Citoyens.”

        Notice how it says “Naturels ou indigènes”? If we look at this passage in the only translations of the Droit that the Founding Fathers could have access to in 1787, both translate this as: “The natives, or indigines, are those born in the country of parents who are citizens.”

        Notice: “natives, or indigines”. The translation “natives, or natural-born citizens” does not appear until the Robinson edition of 1797, ten years after the Constitution was written.

        So this is what I don’t get: If the Founding Fathers actually did intend to build their interpretation of citizenship solely on de Vattel, as the birthers claim, why in the world did they not use the term that was actually in the translation of de Vattel that they had access to at the time? Why does Art. 4, clause 5 not read “No person except an indigenous Citizen…”?

        Of course, at this point, I guess we’re already way beyond the level of scholarship one could expect of birthers. I mean, different editions of the same work? Perish the thought.

        (Incidentally, it’s probably not a coincidence that the 1797 Robinson edition is the earliest version available on the Internet without access to subscription sites.)

          “WE” LOVE THE TRUTH.

    268. Penguinn · ·

      Have enjoyed this thread.
      I guess it will now be recharged with the “discovery” of Obama’s “real” birth certificate. Yes, Taitz has it. It is from the “Republic of Kenya!” But it seems to be dated months before Kenya became a Republic. I am sure there is a perfectly plausible explanation.

    269. idioteraser · ·

      Well the Kenyan birth certificate existing before it would exist seems to be on par with the course of how things seem to occur with Taitz before they would occur.

      Such as getting married in Las Vegas two years before she said she came to this country. Also she may be hung up on Obama due to her being a fake dentist sued for over a dozen malpractice suits as well as paying someone to take the California Bar in her place.

      Also rumours are that under any of the names she has given out no one can find a record of her existance in the former Soviet Union from the time she would have been there which would be pretty strange for someone who was living in that country at the time.

      1. mlaiuppa · ·

        So what?

        Where’s the ORIGINAL birth certificate.

        This document was issued 3 years after Obama’s birth.

    270. idioteraser · ·


      As others have pointed there are things that raise so many red flags in that certificate it looks like a Red China national parade.

      For instance Mombasa was part of the state of Zanzibar until 12 December 1963 when it was ceded to be incorporated into the newly independent state of Kenya. Meaning anyone born in Mombasa prior to 12 December 1963 was a citizen of Zanzibar and would have a Zanzibar issued birth certificate not a Kenyan one.

      Also Obama’s Kenyan family comes from the other side of the country so why would they go to Zanzibar to give birth?

      1. This is hopeless. These people only believe what they want to believe. They are a sickness in America that proves our education system has failed to produce critical thinkers.

    271. idioteraser · ·

      Oh by the way EF Lavender? Eco Friendly Detergent brand.

    272. J. of Orlando · ·

      I find this woman and her weird crusade as amusing / sad as anyone, but in fairness, not being a member of the ABA, a purely optional association, or only being licensed in one state, is the norm for attorneys, not an exception, or an indication she’s not a “real” (although perhaps incompetent) attorney.

    273. So your whole argument seems to be that Taitz IS a lawyer, but ONLY in California? Am I reading this right? So, what’s your point? You’ve convinced me of nothing. Other than that Orly IS a lawyer who is not able to practice outside of California. Whoop-de-doo. Do want some sort of ‘forensics’ merit badge for that one?

      1. The question was whether her limited “lawyer” status is enough to entitle her to practice in federal courts, without it constituting unauthorized practice of law.

    274. Tigerrose · ·

      An Enlisted or Officer in the US Military would be nuts to send her a copy of their I.D. Card, their Social Security number is on the card

    275. As a lawyer, I can tell you that you do not have to join the American Bar Association. It’s like a trade association. We covered the good doctor on our Nutmeg Lawyer blog when a guy came into my law office wanting to sue President Obama. On a side note, most lawyers are admitted to both the state bar as well as the federal bar. She is probably OK there. In my case, I can practice in Connecticut courts as well as before the Supreme Court. The problem is that these suits appear frivolous. It doesn’t help that she is soliciting donations and business (she does foreclosure work) on her website. Lawyers are governed by strict ethics rules when it comes to advertising and solicitation.

      1. You’re right — I probably took the ABA part too seriously. But I find it odd that her limited ability to practice in California is significant enough for her to waive in to all these federal jurisdictions. Makes the limitations on distance-learning law schools pretty damn limited.

    276. Olavo, the purported evidence of a Kenyan birth certificate indicates the Republic of Kenya at a time it was not yet officially a republic.

    277. […] Turnabout: Is Obama Denialist Orly Taitz Really a Lawyer? Will She Be For Long? Submitted to a Candi… […]

    278. Andrew W · ·

      Well I am a lawyer and in my opinion, Orly Taitz is a nut.

    279. mlaiuppa · ·

      I wonder. Did she get her DDS online through distance learning too?

      And what about her Realtor’s license?

    280. I have it on good authority that Orly Taitz is a 1940’s soviet spy. I’m good with photoshop and can create a whole body of proof. Let’s sue her and demand she prove its not true. We won’t believe any evidence she produces and recommend her for deportation as a public menace.

    281. coprogirl · ·

      Republic of Kenya was declared December 12, 1964. The “birth certificate” is an obvious fake.

      1. Right. It’s like Homer said to Bart: if you’re going to cheat, at least try to make it believable.

      2. themadjewess · ·

        Where is it proven YET that it is a ‘fake?’ KLM?? Are you a forensic analyst?
        I was born in 1964, in 1965 my mother registered me, that proves nothing.
        Lets just HOPE that the usurper please shows us all that long form, as AMERICA has been waiting for it since LAST JUNE.

        1. I did not mention the birth certificate. Pay attention to whom you are responding and do not make silly comments about ‘forensic analysts’ without being informed about the status of the ‘Kenyan” Birth certificate. It does not take an analyst to see the dates and places contradict simple facts of history. It has been thoroughly debunked while Ms. Taitz has shown herself to be a raging lunatic without the dignity and ability one would expect of a real lawyer. Only a few crazies, not AMERICA, have been stirring this fetid pot. The AMERICAN PEOPLE have better things to do and most of us respect the office of the President, whether we agree with the individual in office or not.

        2. Granulor Hoek · ·

          Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. When presented with substantial evidence of citizenship (birth certificate, announcements, enrollment records, et al.) and the rejection of said evidence AS EVIDENCE (Google ‘argumentum ad ignorantiam’), you conclude that Pres. Obama is not a citizen. This is not reasonable, which suggests that your motives are other than truth-seeking. Regarding the veracity of Kenyan BC claim, the Australian man whose BC served as the template has been interviewed on television. I submit that this is a quasi-religious movement and that no amount of evidence could ever satisfy mystical requirements of proof. The only thing left to do is to mock or to ignore the poo-flinging apes that indulge in this douchebaggery.

      3. Oneiroi · ·


        I love how birthers will not believe a state verified birth certificate, but believe a random certificate a previously unknown lawyer creates out of thin air with no source.

        There’s plenty of things out there about how it’s fake:

    282. themadjewess · ·

      One, you DO realize that the first one that the Daily KOS put out on the internet was FAKE, the second one is FAKE, how do you expect people to believe ANY of this, when the monster REFUSES to show ANYTHING on himself?? If this was Palin, you all would have made her take a BATH, and BURIED her.

      1. Your chosen screen name says a lot. For whom are you requesting tolerance?? I would return by asking the birthers and the reform bashers to show some respect, dignity and maturity in exercising their precious right to question authority.

        The recent hooliganism on the part of these fanatics jeopardizes the very core of our country. SHAMEFUL.

      2. themadjewess, you request tolerance? how interesting considering what your own website preaches!!! can you spell hypocrite in hebrew???

        1. [removed two comments at user request]

    283. “Wise [wo]men never argue with fools, because people from a distance can’t tell who is who.”

      1. oh…you are right. I will desist with the madjewess before I am gorvelling at that same level. Thanks for the slap!!

        1. themadjewess · ·

          The Mad Jewess can call Obama a monster.
          They called Bush a Nazi, a Fascist, a Joker, a chimp and we said NOTHING while you all did it (even though I despise Bush). Code Pink called the the MURDER of US troops, and we said NOTHING while YOU all ‘dissented’, but now that the shoe is on the other foot, you all cant take it???
          I can, however, on my OWN blog…Nancy..say what I please. :)

    284. idioteraser · ·

      You means the one showing he was born in Hawaii? Those aren’t fake they are the same certificate. The Hawaiian state gov’t confirmed they were the real deal. The Hawaiian state gov’t which was a McCain ally for crying out loud. Clinton and McCain as well as the GOP spent nearly a hundred million trying to dig up dirt on Obama. If they had any evidence that would show he wasn’t eligible they would have shown it.

      The CIA, FBI and other agencies investigated Obama and cleared him not once but multiple times for security clearances.

      You birthers really are as ignorant as the smell you give off when you aren’t downwind suggests.

    285. wow, now obama is the “monster”? quite a leap.

    286. idioteraser · ·

      You may want to look up the text of what is supposed to be a complaint filed with the California State Bar regarding Orly.

      Here is a piece that shows why people have no respect or tolerance for the birthers. The complaint is 30 pages long btw. This snippet shows what a deranged fruit loop she is and how she encourages treason and violence.

      Having been unable to achieve her goal by legal action, she has begun encouraging her followers nationwide to organize themselves as wholly unlawful “Citizens Grand Juries,” and making “presentations” to lead them in indicting President Obama on criminal “charges”. Already, a group of citizens in Georgia issued an “indictment” of the President, and “served” it on government officials, threatening violence if their “indictment” was ignored. Another such “indictment” is coming in early May, under her direction. In addition:

      1. She has accused the following federal officials of treason and called for their indictments:

      a) All the justices of the Supreme Court,
      b) All the members of the U.S. House of Representatives and Senate,
      c) Attorney General Eric Holder, Solicitor General Elena Kagan, and other federal officers,
      d) and, of course, President Obama himself.

      She has openly encouraged and advised these unlawful “Citizens Grand Juries”. In Georgia on March 28, she “presented the case” before a “Citizens Grand Jury” of 25 people, who then issued an indictment of President Obama on charges of fraud. The “indictment” was then “served” on the U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Georgia, and on the Georgia Attorney General, on Georgia’s Speaker of the House, and on Georgia’s President of the Senate

      On April 4, she attended a “Machine Gun Shoot” in Kentucky, where she actively recruited plaintiffs for her various actions and was at least partially successful. According to her own accounting, she signed up at least 20 new “plaintiffs for my legal actions,” presented “a case for fraud” against President Obama in a public appearance with the man who convened the Georgia “Citizens Grand Jury,” and collected “at least 300 signed indictments”. However, upon information and belief, she is not licensed to practice law in the State of Kentucky.

      7. She repeatedly instructs her followers to write, call, and otherwise harrass the U.S. Supreme Court, federal courts, U.S. Attorneys, and other governmental officials, demanding that they investigate the President, arrest, and imprison him.

      1. i think calling her a fruit loop insults the cereal. heaven help us with this lost gabor sister.

    287. Remember 2000 when they were saying, Get over it.
      I guess Get over it,is not working too well for them.

    288. […] ……..O RLY NOW? *Orly Taitz may claim she is certified by the Supreme Court, but she is certainly not certified by the American Bar Association. Check it out. […]

    289. Google map her California Bar address and you will see she is a dentist…with a complaint against her.

      26302 La Paz, 92691, usa

    290. themadjewess · ·

      Alf, so it is important to find that Ms. Taitz was a dentist with a complaint?
      Wow. My dentist gets lots of complaints. Why not see what her LAW record is, since we are not examining TEETH.

    291. HeinieKabooobler · ·

      Dr Orly Taitz is an imposter! She is not a True conservative. She is either part of a Israeli conspiracy, KGB sleeper cell, or working for the Obama administration.


      2. thetruth · ·

        Why would she be working for the Obama administration?! Putting Obama in the same sentence with “Israeli” and “KGB” is insulting…

        1. themadjewess · ·

          thetruth, people are NUTZ, Obama HATES Israel, they are INSANE.
          Read this:
          ISRAEL MK Katz: Obama’s “‘no natural growth’ policy for 650,000 Jews in Judea, Samaria and Jerusalem

    292. thetruth · ·

      Yeah, ACG it would be awesome to see her BC, maybe with her SSN…but then again, who would want to steal the identity of such a witch?

    293. Mountain Jack · ·

      Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution stipulates that the president must be a “natural born citizen” (or, in an obsolete provision, a citizen in 1788), but it does not define the term. The original interpretation relied on British common law, under which, as Justice Horace Gray noted in U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark (1898), “every child born in England of alien parents was a natural-born subject unless the child of an ambassador or other diplomatic agent of a foreign State or of an alien enemy in hostile occupation of the place where the child was born.”

      The 14th Amendment, ratified in 1868, established this principle as a constitutional right: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.” Aside from the children of foreign diplomats and (theoretically) military occupiers, the only U.S. natives not to be natural-born citizens were Indians born on reservations–and this exception was abolished by the Indian Citizenship Act of 1924.

      Other statutes have extended natural-born citizenship to some children born overseas to U.S. citizens. There is a theory that these statutes are unconstitutional–that the Constitution, in granting natural-born citizenship to those born on U.S. soil, thereby denies it to everyone else. Although this view is eccentric, it is an open legal question. According to the State Department’s Consular Affairs Manual (at page 9 of PDF), “the fact that someone is a natural born citizen pursuant to a statute does not necessarily imply that he or she is such a citizen for Constitutional purposes.” Since Obama was born in the U.S., he is in any case a natural-born citizen by constitutional right. By contrast, John McCain, born in Panama, is a statutory natural-born citizen.

      Some birthers imagine that there is a difference between being a “citizen by birth” or a “native citizen” on the one hand and a “natural born” citizen on the other. “Eccentric” is too kind a word for this notion, which is either daft or dishonest. All three terms are identical in meaning. As Chief Justice Morrison Waite noted in Minor v. Happersett (1874):

      Additions might always be made to the citizenship of the United States in two ways: first, by birth, and second, by naturalization. This is apparent from the Constitution itself, for it provides that “no person except a natural-born citizen, or a citizen of the United States at the time of the adoption of the Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President,” and that Congress shall have power “to establish a uniform rule of naturalization.” Thus new citizens may be born or they may be created by naturalization.



        Thomas Jefferson to J.Cartwright 1824:

        “It(Our Revolution)….presented us an album on which we were free to write what we pleased. We had no occasion to search into musty records, to hunt up royal parchments, or to investigate the laws and institutions of a semi-barbarous ancestry. We appealed to those(laws) of nature…”

        Emmerich de Vattel’s contemporaneous “Le Droit des Gens”/The Right(s)of People/ human nature/ our kind/genus “The Law of Nations or Principles of the Law of Nature- Applied to the Conduct and Affairs of Nations and Sovereigns”


        1. Oh look it found a book! Adorable!!!

        2. I wouldn’t give him that much credit. Probably found it on the Internet.

        3. Now if only he could find a working caps lock key.

          1. Man can dream, Oneiroi. Man can dream.

    294. themadjewess · ·

      Well, I posted what I feel. See this ‘birther movement’ started in June 08. You are ALL behind the times. See, SOME of us actually CARE WHO gets in office, and some people…just…BLOG AFTER an IDIOT gets in there.

      I have been following Obama since 2004, where my organization informed America that Obama would be SELECTED and we were RIGHT.

      1. Oneiroi · ·

        Ooo, I want to hear more about the election which wasn’t closely contested or having to do with political currents.

        Tell me more about this “Xenu” and “illuminati”?

    295. themadjewess · ·

      Me, illumaniti? Did you even BOTHER to READ my post?
      I am not a conspiracy WACKO. 9/11 was done by TERRORISTS, and now they are permitted to come here, b/c Hussein says so.

      Im not into the NWO, etc. I just believe that we are in a fight of good against evil, simple as that.

    296. Jamil M Chaudr · ·

      The constitutional assertion, “Natural Born Citizen” has only the following two implications: (1) the person should not have come into the world through a caesarean section (2) should be a citizen. All other derivations are made by self-serving individuals and are intended to discriminated against new arrivals.

      1. Haaaaahahahahahahaha. It was about time to get Shakespearean.

    297. BrendanO'Maidian · ·

      How fascinating. All who believe the claims of Taitz and those who fabricate, are the same people who soaked up the lies of W during his “administration.” Remember, it was W, who as governor of Texas, made sure all of his military records were not only off-limits to investigation, but had them destroyed. Let us not forget his lies about WMD, Iraq, 9/11, Enron, Valerie Plame, et alia. How he joked about putting a Born-Again Christian to death. Oh, yes, there was a real praysident. He never lied, because GOD put him in there, not rigged elections and the Supreme Court.
      You sad mothervuckers.

    298. themadjewess · ·

      Brendan, so THAT is why you voted in HUSSEIN?? To get back at the GOPers?
      Not all people that have been following this ‘birther’ story are GOP.
      This HAS been going on since June 08, its not ‘new info’

      Oops! I take it all back. Gah! I’ve wasted my life! Why didn’t I vote for Obama when I had the chance? I pledge myself to making sure he gets re-elected, as my atonement for my insanity!

    299. idioteraser · ·

      The story has been nonsense from day one. He was vetted as a Senator etc. They would have researched the record of his birth.

      It’s only believed by the GOP that he is not a US citizen or that he was not born in the US. Studies show that the oldest, racist people who overwhelmingly vote GOP that believe the birther nonsense. It’s not surprising since these people have never gotten a passport or gone through any background check.

      1. man are you not listening nor reading:
        NATURAL BORN CITIZEN !!!!!!! You fool.
        such class of citizenship is NOT required for senator
        God Almighty, what is with people?!

    300. themadjewess · ·

      Brendon, make sure you get one of HUSSEINS vaccines in Sept.

    301. Obama doesn’t have to show you twerps anything. Just go pee on yourselves, or have intercourse with your mule, or anything close to hand. Headless chickens make more sense than you mindless KKKlan folks.

    302. themadjewess · ·

      Emelio, that is quite a race-filled statment. You are insinuating that ALL white folks are “kkk”
      Just an FYI… KKK and neo-Nazis HATES Jews. So, get a grip little obaZOMBIE.
      He most certainly DOES have to prove to America that he even ‘likes’ America, he is the president you silly moron.
      He is suppose to be there for ALL the people, not just democrats and leftists and RINOS

    303. Legal definition of a Natural Born Citizen from the …

      FIRST CONGRESS. Sess. II CH 4. 1790 (approved March 26, 1790)

      … thereon; and there upon such person shall be considered as a citizen of the United States. And the children of such persons so naturalized, dwelling within the United States, being under the age of twenty-one years at the time of such naturalization, shall also be considered as citizens of the United States. AND THE CHILDREN OF CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES, that may be BORN beyond sea or out of the limits of the United States SHALL BE CONSIDERED AS NATURAL BORN CITIZENS; PROVIDED THAT THE RIGHT OF CITIZENSHIP SHALL NOT DESCEND TO PERSONS WHOSE FATHERS HAVE NEVER BEEN RESIDENT IN THE UNITED STATES: …

      BO Sr. was never “resident” in this country sidere not migratory

      Thomas Jefferson speaks: author of Virginia’s citizenship statute—(my CAPS for highlighting & emphasis)

      “Be it enacted by the General Assembly, that all(white)**persons born within the territory of this commonwealth and all who have resided therein two years next before the passing of this act……….. ; and ALL INFANTS wheresoever born, WHOSE FATHER, if living, or otherwise, whose mother WAS, A CITIZEN AT THE TIME OF THEIR BIRTH, or who migrate hither, their father, if living, or otherwise their mother becoming a citizen, or who migrate hither without father or mother, SHALL BE DEEMED CITIZENS of this commonwealth, ”

      **predates passage of 14th Amend , obviously

      1. Tim, Tim, Tim. Do you even read this stuff before you post it?

        The first thing you have there is the 170 Act to establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization – it deals with who can or cannot become naturalized citizens, and as such completely irrelevant for the other category of citizens, the ordinarily natural born ones.

        And as for the Virginia Bill see what happens if we remove all the irrelevant clauses:

        “Be it enacted by the General Assembly, that all white persons born within the territory of this commonwealth … shall be deemed citizens of this commonwealth, until they relinquish that character in manner as herein after expressed: …”

        Wow, isn’t that amazing? Apparently birth is sufficient for citizenship after all!

        1. are you capable of critical thinking? He asks rhetorically
          I not only read them but unlike you I place them into proper context, historically, etc & wouldn’t ya know ..viola! full comprehension vs remaining in a perpetual state of obscurity –a state ,it would seem ,you feel most comfortable inhabiting

        2. You know, tim, as an MPhil in history, I do like to think that I’m moderately capable of not only critical thinking, but also of placing things in their proper historical context. I’m also aware that no amount of contextualizing can make a source say the opposite of what it actually says, although I concede there may be certain radical postmodernists who disagree with me on that.

          That said, I wonder if you have ever included
          Blackstone’s Commentaries as part of your contextualisations – I hope you’ll find Book 1 Ch. 10 illuminating.


            “This law of nature, being coeval with mankind and dictated by God himself, is of course superior in obligation to any other. – It is binding over all the globe in all countries, and at all times; no human laws are of any validity, if contrary to this: and such of them as are valid derive all their force, and all their authority, mediately or immediately, from this original.”

    304. You know, has anyone checked to verify that she’s really a Dentist or Real Estate Agent? Bad enough if our one-stop shop for all things legal, dental, and shelter-related isn’t useful for all things legal, but if we can’t use her for all things dental or shelter-related either…

      1. There was some suspicion that her dental license, of Israeli origin, was not legit.

    305. themadjewess · ·

      If the right wing wants to concentrate on Ms Taitz, it should be that he is a DUAL. Which he is, you all didnt vet out Hussein Osama

    306. themadjewess · ·

      oh, and you know whats HYSTERICAL on this blog??
      was a REPUBLICAN LOL!!

    307. Christine Peterson · ·

      This woman is complaining about vague background information and split loyalties? I guess the Soviet secret police who kept her hometown quiet during her childhood were better about keeping records. Or maybe she learned a few things living in Israel, which knows a few things about intelligence operations. Is she really working to defend our way of life, or doing a favor for Putin or Mossad by keeping people here distracted?

    308. What I can’t figure out is how she ever passed the Baby Bar (required because she went to a fake University) or the California Bar. I’m not a lawyer but my lawyer friends all assure me these exams are difficult and I know several people who failed them multiple times.

    309. idioteraser · ·

      Rumour is she paid someone to take it for her.

    310. justthefactsplease · ·

      Re: post of Aug 9th @ 5:43 am

      Sorry Tim – the *only* relevant documents I see here are the 14rth Amendment (sec 1)and USC (specifically title 8 sec 1401 – subsection “a”). Anyone who interprets the Founding Father’s intent in a way that conflicts with what is currently spelled out in the Constitution (or through extension USC where it further defines the Constitution) is killing their own argument.

      Capacommie and bullwhacker – come on over to LiveLeak – we’ll show you a *real* good time when you try to present your arguments…


    311. Show Me State citizen · ·

      (Sung to the tune of “The Battle Hymn of the Republic”)

      Mine eyes have not yet seen
      Obama’s birth certificate.
      It is hidden in a vault
      Where only God’s Right Hand can get.
      Obama’s C. O. L. B. is a
      Lousy counterfeit.
      It’s truth we’re marching for!!!!

      Orly! Orly! Hallelujah!!!
      Orly! Orly! Hallelujah!!!
      Orly! Orly! Hallelujah!!!
      It’s truth we’re marching for!!!!

      We shall fight the Masked Usurper
      On the beaches, in the hills.
      We shall fight this Painted Joker
      On the seas and in the fields.
      We shall fight to Hell and back
      And into court and with appeals.
      It’s truth we’re marching for!

      Orly! Orly! Hallelujah!!!
      Orly! Orly! Hallelujah!!!
      Orly! Orly! Hallelujah!!!
      It’s truth we’re marching for!!!!

      (Author grants permission to reprint on web or in print and to perform in public)

      1. It is said that ridicule is the test of truth; but it is never applied except when we wish to deceive ourselves—when if we cannot exclude the light, we would fain draw the curtain before it.
        So it is from this derisive state; the last refuge of that kind of self-esteem which must be protected from the sight of reality that a fool makes his first & last argument.

    312. Can you please explain why investigating a president’s life is a conspiracy theory and investigating his enemies’ lifes is not?

      1. It’s a conspiracy theory because all of the officials who’s job it is to check this, have thrown it out as ridiculous (judges, state officials, etc). So to assume that the people with the evidence are lying, takes this into conspiracy theory land.

        If you’re talking about Bush officials on “the other side” of investigation…most people accept what they’ve done was morally dubious, the argument tends to be whether or not it was acceptable at the time or whether or not going after them now is worthwhile and not a supposed “witch hunt”.

        Those two situations are worlds apart.

        1. ‘They’ haven’t thrown out anything “as ridiculous”. They dismiss (it) on technicalities(‘standing’, ‘jurisdiction’ etc) For, if they dared hear the matter on it merit they would have little choice but to rule properly in support of the Constitution or go down, on record, as having sanctioned the usurpation

    313. Nlacks have the highest abortion rate in the U.S.
      Obama wants pro-abortion (“Choice”) judges and Hillary pro-abort at U.N. Reagan wrote “Abortion and the Conscience of the Nation” that became a small book. Obama is hailed as leader, just as Hitler was –who exterminated 6 million mostly Jews. Too many politicians are pro-aborion.

    314. Blacks have the highest abortion rate in the U.S.
      Obama wants pro-abortion (“Choice”) judges and Hillary pro-abort at U.N. Reagan wrote “Abortion and the Conscience of the Nation” that became a small book. Obama is hailed as leader, just as Hitler was –who exterminated 6 million mostly Jews. Too many politicians are pro-aborion.

      1. You know who else has a lot of followers and divinely wrote a book? God.

        Wrap your mind around that.

        1. And you know another guy who wrote a book that got him a lot of followers? Hitler! That’s right.

          (I’m… not quite sure where I’m going with this.)

    315. Bob Stout · ·

      Wow! This back and forth between good americans reaffirms my belief that our country has become so polarized, left vs right, that anyone in the middle will have to move to one side or the other. The chasm that began with the rejection of Judge Robert Bork to the U.S. Supreme Court and has steadily increased in intensity through the Reagan, 1st Bush, Clinton, 2nd Bush and now Obama presidencies is at a breaking point. I sense our melting pot has produced such divergent views on simple issues there really is no compromise left. Like the rock group we are in “Dire Straits” and are like a volcano ready to spew (by force) our ideologies on each other.

      Now to the point at hand:
      BACKGROUND: I’m not a fire breathing liberal or an apocalyptic conservative. What I am is a truth seeker. I don’t care what the issue is I want the truth. I define truth as uncontrovertable written, verbal or visual data that has been verified. So, I have no axe to grind regarding birthers or the President’s “facts”. So here is my take on the truth as I see it on the issue being discussed.

      1. Fact Check is not an organization I can place my trust.

      2. If the Eleanor Nordyke twins, who were born 1 day after the President in the same hospital, can produce valid short-form microfiche copies with all the detailed information of their Certificate of Birth (certificate numbers ending in 10637 and 10638), why can’t the President produce his short form (microfiche with the detailed information that his long-form Certification of Live Birth has the number 10641 does not? – The long form is a shortened, yes legal copy, but does provide the facts regarding his birth in the same hospital as does the Nordyke twins. This is not an unreasonable request. If the facts are as the President claims, then it would be easy to obtain the copy and provide it. He has chosen not to.

      Look Tiger Woods, maintained this squeaky clean image of his family life that garnered 90% of his income from sponsors. We all now know what happened because of sleazy “non-professionals” digging up the truth. Yes Tiger is the greatest golfer ever to play the game. No question. Did we genuinely like him. You bet. But is hard to now, because we feel betrayed, just as does his wife and ultimately his children as they grow older. We make decisions in our life. They should be based on Truth.

      3. It is very pertinent to review the school records of the President. Be they grammer school, high school, Occidental College or Columbia University. I could care less if he flunked a few classes or got straight As in all of them. His stated birth name and country designation is what is at question, so just clear it up.
      4. As I said, I am not a birther. I am an american who holds truth by verification as the single most important test of our democracy.
      Without that single component being ingrained in all that we do, we are not defenders of the Constitution but are like palm trees blowing in the wind. Whichever way the wind is blowing, that is the direction the palm trees (and therefore we) bend.

      1. idioteraser · ·

        Hawaii in 2001 destroyed all the physical birth certificates when they were put on electronic record as have several other states did at the same time and the rest of the states are in the process of doing so.

        Birth certificates are not public records in Hawaii. What the president provided is what any gov’t agency, court, school etc who requested the birth certificate info would get. The govt’ of Hawaii has repeatldy confirmed he was born there. McCain investigated it and found the claim he wasn’t born there to be nonsense.


        School records aren’t public records and any student from the mid 1970s and up has their school records kept private as a mattter of privacy laws. Also guess what schools lose their records or they are destroyed whetere delibertly as a matter of book keeping or lost through other means such as warehouse fires etc. There are a good number of Americans whose schools no longer exist nor do the records those schools had. Heck even I couldn’t get my grade school records nor can most people currently in high school and college.

        Hawaii no longer provides the long form and several other states do not either. More states are abandoning the long form and the certificates they do give out have less info then the one Hawaii. My flordia birth certificate is the size of a credit card guess what it is valid to use in a court of law to establish my identity as a US citizen who was born in the US.

        Also the Nordyke twins birth certificates are decades old. Most people don’t keept their birth certificates stored in an attic or they have lost them. Also guess what birth certificates either long form, short form, memorial form change every decade or so in apperance and what info they contain. They also vary in apperance and what info they contain in each state. What matters is the name, and certificate number.


          1. idioteraser · ·

            States and the federal gov’t destroy records all the time. It’s a matter of procedure. Hawaii and several other states have said they destroyed the birth certificates when they were put into electronic form. Paper records are often destroyed when they are put into microfiche or electronic form.

          2. themadjewess · ·

            Obama is still going to have his day in court, and guess what, kiddies, Orly is STILL taking him there along with Berg.
            WHERE IS THE B.C. USURPER!?


    316. You see, Holocust should have gotten rid of people like her. Stupid Hitler, had he waited 2 more years, we would not have Muslim hating Zionist like her trying to question our president’s birth place. I spite on your face and wish death upon you and anyone who supports Zionist regime of Israel. Not that I love Arabs, as Persian, I am proud of my race and when I see hateful piece of garbage like this lady, it makes me want to ask Mahmood to drop the bomb on Israel.

      1. This probably isn’t the site for you.

    317. refuse2lose · ·

      I guess the dimwits that visit this site are unaware of the fact that America is not a DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY,it is a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC.Look up the two terms,there really is a difference.But of course just like our president is lying about his birth and lying about him being a lawyer you guys will stand behind him in everything he does.Kind of like the poor Germans that were lied to by Hitler.

    318. I don’t agree with the birthers either, and I don’t understand what motivates them to continue their quixotic quest when it’s so obviously futile. But when you criticize Orly’s law degree solely because it was earned by distance you’re making a mistake. The evidence is pretty conclusive that when it comes to educational results, there’s no significant difference between learning on campus and learning online. Heck, even Harvard does online learning nowadays.

      So if you want to make fun of Orly there are plenty of reasons. But that’s not one of them. She may be misusing her law degree, and I’ll grant you that Taft isn’t exactly in danger of finding itself in the top ten, but that doesn’t mean it’s not real.

    319. good article its interesting maybe it is a conspiracy theory

    320. Im not so sure maybe she is a lawyer but I have seen some issues with other Lawyers like this before

      EDITED to remove blogspam.

    321. […] lesser scale). As of this writing, this site’s most widely read post, at 28,1256 page views, questions whether Birther queen Orly Taitz is, or was likely to remain, a lawyer. And the premise of that post was ultimately disproved! She was properly admitted to the Supreme […]

    322. Hey there, You have done a great job. I will definitely digg it and for my part recommend to my friends. I’m confident they will be benefited from this website.

    323. Founding Father , “Acting President of the United States in Congress Assembled”, David Ramsay was one of the first major historians of the American Revolution. He graduated Princeton University in 1765, received his medical degree from the University of Pennsylvania in 1773-

      Ramsay says:

      “None can claim citizenship as a birthright,


    324. From BObama Jr’s own website;”Fight the Smears” He sanctions for wide-dissemination the following from”Factcheck[dot]org”

      “As a Kenyan native,Barack Obama Sr was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948.THAT SAME ACT GOVERNED the status of Obama Sr‘s children”

      BNA 1948:a person born after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom & Colonies by descent if his father is a citizen of the UK & Colonies at the time of the birth

    325. and once more (and as always), you just don’t get it, Tim. What the UK says as ITS law, doesn’t apply to a child born on US soil, nor can it OVERRIDE US LAW AS IT APPLIES TO CITIZENSHIP. If and when you ever grasp this point (which I doubt since I’ve just read posts by you from 2009 where you still flail away on your Birther ‘mission’, perhaps it’ll finally dawn on you that President Barack Obama was born to an American Citizen Mother (Kansas born) ON American soil (Hawaii), has provided all the proof necessary for his birth and that’s all there is to it. WE’VE re-elected him to his second term as President with an even bigger margin than Bill Clinton received AND he’s made history as the first Democrat to win reelection with the popular vote since FDR. Now stick that in your pipe (or wherever). Orly Taitz is still flailing about as Judge and Court after Court knock down her absurdities. It’s high time she was fined for wasting taxpayer time and money on this nonsense.

    326. LOgicalperson · ·

      How many cases has Orly Taitz won? How many times has she been fined for bringing frivolous lawsuits, and how much has she paid in fines? How many times has she been lectured by judges? Barack Obama has been reelected. That’s it. You will never get him out of office until January 2017, when the next president is inaugurated. We like him. He is a natural born American. There are newsaper articles form the 90’s.

    327. Marius, you can hardly claim not to be a lawyer.

      After all, you are a devil’s advocate, as well as
      something else commonly associated with lawyers.

    328. Amazingly, Orly still sucks air…and sucks in general. And the lunacy that is the birferz continues to amaze, sicken and amuse what passes for the civilized world!

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